Liverpool & South West Lancs Genealogy

[Liverbird]

Would any one be able to help with the following please.

I have a death cert for my Gt Grandfather Richard Jones who died at 14 Shelley St, Bootle in May 1917. The person who registered his death was his son-in-law F. Rowland and the address he gave was Wellington Vaults,followed by either Earl St or Edal St, Rock Ferry.
This gentleman was married to my Gt Aunt Eleanor the daughter of Richard Jones and they also had a pub The Ship Inn at Hoylake, dont know which pub came first.I have been trying to find their marriage cert without any luck and as we know he was called Frank I wonder would this be a true name and would this show on any directory covering the above address in Rock Ferry, upto the present they are a mystery as far as their marriage is concerned, Eleanor was born in 1876 and shows on the census for 1881 and 1891 after that she is also a mystery but she did exist as I met her and her daughter. Thanks for any help any one can throw my way Cheers Liverbird
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[TonyS]

Hi,

I don't have a 1917 directory but in 1911 there is a

Frank Rowlands, beer retailer, at 54 Thomas Street, Birkenhead.


Tony
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Liverpool maps and photographs

[Liverbird]

Hi Tony, thank you for your prompt reply and interest. That sounds promising I wonder was the place a pub ? I have tried the variations on the surname of Rowland but I have to say they are defeating me. By the way I like your site, so interesting and a lot of hard work to make it so. cheers Liverbird0
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searching for Mc Cann, ( Dublin,Ireland) Mc Dermott (Edinburgh,Scotland) Evans, (Gaerwen,Anglesey) Jones (Llansilan,Denbigh) Wesson, (Bluntisham-cum-Earith, Hunts) Thoday, (Willingham, Cambs) Cuttriss (Islip, Northampton) Lucas (St Ives, Cambs)

[smokey]

Hi Liverbird

A couple of years ago my wife and I had the pleasure of meeting a lady - over from Australia to retrace the steps of her ancestors - for a meal and a few drinks in the Ship Inn at Hoylake and the Anchor Inn at Irby, both of which establishments had at one time been in the proprietorship of the lady's family.
She's a great-grandaughter of Lily ROWLAND (b1865 Oxton), sibling to Frank ROWLAND (b1876 Oxton) who married an Ellen who died on 15 November 1956 and is buried in Thurstaston St Bartholomew, Wirral.
Is this likely to be your Eleanor JONES, d'you think?

Gordon

[Liverbird]

Wow, thank you Smokey this looks too much of a coincidence doesnt it, I only know that Eleanor and her husband were at the Ship inn at Hoylake because my Mum who is now a 100 yrs of age stayed with them there when she was a child. We took her there in the 1990's and she had a word with the then landlord and she was able to describe some of the upper rooms to him and he was amazed with her memory. The only other thing I know for certain is that they had a daughter named May, every one in the family referred to Eleanor as Aunty Nelly. I last saw her when I was very young so the death in the 50's sounds right as she seemed very old then, I will have a look again at all records and perhaps I can get in touch with you if you dont mind as you seem to have a great knowledge of the family, thank you so much for your input . cheers Liverbird
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searching for Mc Cann, ( Dublin,Ireland) Mc Dermott (Edinburgh,Scotland) Evans, (Gaerwen,Anglesey) Jones (Llansilan,Denbigh) Wesson, (Bluntisham-cum-Earith, Hunts) Thoday, (Willingham, Cambs) Cuttriss (Islip, Northampton) Lucas (St Ives, Cambs)

[smokey]

Hi again, Liverbird

Am I correct in thinking that your great-grandfather Richard JONES was born 1843 in Birkenhead, a french polisher by trade?
(Incidentally, I also have a great-grandfather Richard JONES, born 1845 in Liverpool, died Bootle 1929. He was a grocer, blacksmith, merchant seaman & inventor).

I corresponded with the Australian lady referred to earlier (actually a distant relative of mine from Wodonga, Victoria) for some time both before & after her visit to England. Unfortunately I lost everything (including 7 years' e-mails) when the hard drive on my pc shattered 12 months ago, but I've a feeling I printed off a photograph she sent me of her great-grand uncle Frank ROWLAND with a young girl about 8 years old. If I can put my hands on it amongst the several thousand bits of paper in my computer room I'll see if I can scan a copy to photo-bucket and post the image on this thread.
Would be very interested to know whether your 100 year-old mother recognises her uncle Frank and whether she can identify the young girl in the picture - might even be her, perhaps?

Gordon

[jan44]

Hi Liverbird,

I have the 1914 directory and found the following entry

Frank Rowlands Beer Seller 17 Earl Street Rock Ferry.

Jan
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Clarke, McLeod, Pendleton (Liverpool and I.O.M.) Coltham, Cowley, Nickson, Huyton, Grisdale, Quirk, Knowles, Street, Howard. Knubley.

Member number 7756

[smokey]

Hi Liverbird

This is the pic I believe to be of Frank ROWLAND (1876-1939), one-time licensee of (inter-alia) the Ship Inn in Hoylake and the Ring O'Bells in West Kirby.
Let's know if it rings any bells with mum?

Gordon

[img][/img]

[Liverbird]

Well what a day, so much information you have all supplied to my post and in such a short time, huge thanks to all of you. Knew you would possibly come up with the directory info Jan, I have tried everything except beer seller, I was being quite posh with publican.

The photograph is absolutley lovely, sadly we lost all our old ones in the blitz, but this is special and Frank Rowland looks as much a gentleman as my Mum described him, I will print it off to take when I go to see her on Tuesday. I would say looking at it that the girl in it is his daughter May as by her dress it looks Edwardian. My Mum was born in 1908 and May was a little younger than her, I remember going to her home in Rock Ferry with my parents, she had married into the Porter family.
My Gt GRandfather was Richard Jones who came to Liverpool from Llansilin, Denbigh he first shows on the Liverpool census in 1871, he was a carter, I see you are looking for Davies and Griffiths 2 of his daughters married into those families, perhaps we have a link, I will be in touch once I take the pic to Mum, thanks once again, cheers Liverbird
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searching for Mc Cann, ( Dublin,Ireland) Mc Dermott (Edinburgh,Scotland) Evans, (Gaerwen,Anglesey) Jones (Llansilan,Denbigh) Wesson, (Bluntisham-cum-Earith, Hunts) Thoday, (Willingham, Cambs) Cuttriss (Islip, Northampton) Lucas (St Ives, Cambs)

[Liverbird]

Just realised, you said that Frank Rowland was at the Ring o' Bells, this was a favourite place for my husband and I but I did not know I had a slight connection with it, how strange as I always felt very comfortable there.
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searching for Mc Cann, ( Dublin,Ireland) Mc Dermott (Edinburgh,Scotland) Evans, (Gaerwen,Anglesey) Jones (Llansilan,Denbigh) Wesson, (Bluntisham-cum-Earith, Hunts) Thoday, (Willingham, Cambs) Cuttriss (Islip, Northampton) Lucas (St Ives, Cambs)

[Maureen]

Hi Liverbird & Gordon
Would you like me to get the photo cleaned up and dated? as I use a forum who does it for free and I can post it back on here for you!!
Cheers
Momo :

PS Great photo Gordon!!
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Member No 7661
L/Pool Cooper,Duffy,Ryan,Hannah,VanStratum,Dolan,Hill,
Directories 1766,1796,1821,1822,1843.1853,1860,1873,1894,1911,1938

[smokey]

Hi again Liverbird

Here's a pic of Frank & Ellen's grave in Thurstaston St Bartholomew churchyard :-



I e-mailed my relative in Wodonga (now yours too, of course!) to tell her of your post and she sent a lovely reply back, including :-

"It's very nice to hear from you and yes I would be very interested in making contact with the person you mention.
I have very little information on Frank ROWLAND's wife but my knowledge of her is that her name was Ellen JONES. To date I have not found a marriage for the couple.
The only child of Frank and Ellen ROWLAND was Abby (Abbie) Mae ROWLAND (1912-1978). She married Thomas FAIRMAN, 23 Feb 1932 in Manchester, Lancashire, they in turn only had one child, a daughter Angela who went to live in the US in the 1950's. Angela lives in New York and she and I correspond regularly. She doesn't do any research herself but loves to receive the results of my research, I know she would be thrilled to think I have contact with someone with a connection to her Grandmother (hope I have that right).
Abby Mae ROWLAND, according to Angela, was named after the wife of Frank's elder brother Thomas ROWLAND (ROLAND) Abby May HOOD. Thomas ROLAND seemed to have set the precedent for many of the descendants of Thomas and Martha ROWLAND to move and settle in the US.
Mention of the Ship Inn brings back memories of our get together there almost 3 years ago, how time fly's! It's a lovely memory of my visit to Wirral.
Please do pass on my email to the lady concerned, I'm more that happy to share what I have."

Will send you her e-mail address by pm if you wish?

Best regards
Gordon

[Liverbird]

How amazing, I honestly cant express my feelings, normally not lost for words but seeing this last pic has almost done it, huge gulps.

I dont know why I had May's married name as Porter we had a number of May's in the family and I think now she was my Nan's niece originally Griffiths, daughter of her sister Mary. I can remember now hearing that Angela had gone to America, so our relationship to each other is that her Grandmother Eleanor was the eldest daughter of Richard Jones of Llansilin, Denbigh and Catherine Evans of Llanfinhagel Yscefiog, Gaerwen, Anglesey and my Grandmother Elizabeth (Bessy) was their youngest daughter, I have been doing research and have both Richard and Catherines family's back to 1841, if she would like the details she is very welcome, also please tell Lily that it would be good to hear from her, dont we have a small world? Thank you so much, what it is like being in the middle and spreading so much joy.

cheers liverbird
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searching for Mc Cann, ( Dublin,Ireland) Mc Dermott (Edinburgh,Scotland) Evans, (Gaerwen,Anglesey) Jones (Llansilan,Denbigh) Wesson, (Bluntisham-cum-Earith, Hunts) Thoday, (Willingham, Cambs) Cuttriss (Islip, Northampton) Lucas (St Ives, Cambs)

[smokey]

Hi Liverbird

Have sent you a pm containing your new-found relative's e-mail address.

Was interested to see that your great-grandmother Catherine EVANS (born c1843) hails from Gaerwen in Anglesey.
In the 1841 Census my great-grandmother Sidney DAVIES (b1832 AGY Llaneilian) was living with her aunt & uncle on their farm just three miles away at Llanidan, overlooking the Menai Strait.

Gordon

[Liverbird]

Thanks a lot have p,md back to you cheers Liverbird
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searching for Mc Cann, ( Dublin,Ireland) Mc Dermott (Edinburgh,Scotland) Evans, (Gaerwen,Anglesey) Jones (Llansilan,Denbigh) Wesson, (Bluntisham-cum-Earith, Hunts) Thoday, (Willingham, Cambs) Cuttriss (Islip, Northampton) Lucas (St Ives, Cambs)