Help needed Thomas Lowe first wife

[mave]

Hi, Can anyone help were I can look for my G Grandads Thomas Lowe first wife.
He married my G Grandmother 1879, but already had two boys one 12 one 6 on the 1881 Census.. I have tried the 1871 Census where the oldest son William should have been a least 2 but can't find anything. Is there anywhere else I can look. Sorry for rattling on only way I could explain.

Mave

[MaryA]

So that the crew can get the picture, please give the details from the 1881 census, including ages and birthplaces and reference, and also Thomas Lowe's wife's name to check the marriage.

Also have you found the family in the 1891 census?

[mave]

Hi Mary A, Here is what I have
1881 Census 27 Penryn Street
Thomas Lowe 39 Head Dock Lab Liverpool
Alice Lowe 30 Wife No sure could not read
Jane Owens 11 S/Daughter Liverpool
Wm Owens 9 S/Son "
Wm Lowe 12 Son "
Samuel Lowe 6 Son "
John Lowe 1 Son "
Ellen Tunstall 50 Mother in Law ??

1891 Census 29 Penrhyn Street
Thomas Lowe 50 Warehouse Keeper
Alice Lowe 39
William Owens 19 Dock Lab
Alice Lowe 7 daughter (my Granny)
Thomas Lowe 4 Son

1901 Census same house
He's 60 still warehouse keeper
Alice Lowe 50
Alice " 17 Sugar Bag Maker
Thomas " 13
Henry " 8 Son
Ada Murphy 22 Boarder Sugar Bag Maker

Im afraid I have no idea what his first wifes name is that is one of the things I'm trying to find out.

Thanks Mave

[MaryA]

I have no idea what his first wifes name is

I meant Alice's name so that we could check the date of the marriage.

Why do you question that Ellen Tunstall is mother in law? Do you not have the marriage certificate between Thomas Lowe and Alice? This should state Widower for Thomas, if Alice is also a widow then that should be easier identified if her father's name is different to the one she married with.

Presumably you have the birth certificate for Alice born 1884, which will give Alice's surname. This is what is needed.

Are you sure the two older children don't belong to Alice? as they are marked Step daughter and son, I would have suspected this to be the case.

[Dominex]

There's a Thomas Lowe that marries a Sarah Ellison in 1869, Liverpool St John.

On the 1871 there's a Thomas and Sarah Lowe with a son called William c1870 in the Prescot area. Though it says Thomas born Sutton and William too, and Thomas is down as a farmer

Sue

[MaryA]

Thomas Lowe married Alice Owens in Walton, St. Mary Q1 1879 8b 584

So I think the two children are Alice's from a previous marriage.

[MaryA]

1871
1 Chapel Walks, St Martin, Liverpool
Ellen Tunstill Head Wid 43 Charwoman Ormskirk, Lancashire
Alice Owens daur Married 22 Liverpool
Jane Owens granddaur 2 Liverpool
John Tunstill Son Unm 16 Dock Labourer Liverpool
RG10; Piece: 3756; Folio: 148; Page: 1

William Owens married Alice Tunstall Liverpool All Saints - 1868

[mave]

Thank you both.
Sorry about ?? a mistake
Alice Tunstall 1849 Ormskirk Lanc,s
Father Henry Tunstall c1831 Kirkby
Mother Ellen Thompson c1831 Ormskirk Lanc's

On the 1871 census no William Lowe so all I can think is that William and Samuel had a different mother and Thomas was married before.

Also where was husband William on the 1871 as he must have been alive as William jnr was born about a year later. Problems Problems I hope I can solve them.

mave

[Hilary]

Hi

As Mary says if you haven't got the marriage certificate of Thomas to Alice you need to get it. This should say Thomas is a widower (hopefully) and will give his father's name. This will help to find Thomas in earlier censuses.

You could ask for a look up for the marriage.

Ed officer

PS Just a thought maybe Thomas was at sea in 1871

[MaryA]

I get your drift now, you were talking about a different William

The obvious Thomas in 1871 is boarding in Upper Beau Street, head of household being an Eleanor Wilson, housekeeper.
Thomas is 30 and a mariner with a wife Margaret, 31. No children.

There are a couple of possible marriages for your Thomas

Q1 1871 West Derby 8b 431 at Everton, St. Augustine
Thomas Paterson Lowe to Margaret Ellen Westmore

Q4 1869 Liverpool 8b 80 at Liverpool, St. John
Thomas Ireland Lowe to Sarah Ann Ellison

Q3 1868 West Derby 8b 639 at Sefton, St Helen
Thomas Archer Lowe to Elizabeth Helen Jackson

Strange all of them have an unusual middle name which would help identify them, none seem to use them in the censuses.

I think your first step is to identify Thomas from his marriage cert to Alice and then if it's possible to check out the other marriages to see if any of them match up for age, occupation etc. Luckily all churches have been identified. Pity we didn't have this list ready before yesterday, it was one of my few and far between visits to the Record Office.

Best thing is to post another message and ask if anybody is visiting the RO, if they would look up the details for you and possibly work towards his birth in earlier censuses and try to come at the problem from the other direction.

[MaryA]

Something worth thinking about

Samuel Lowe
Birth: 14 July 1873
Christening: 20 July 1873 Saint Peter, Liverpool
Parents Thomas and Jane

William Lowe
Birth: 21 January 1867
Christening: 10 February 1867 Saint Peter, Liverpool
Parents Thomas and Jane

I know the dates are a little out, but do you know who gave the enumerator the census details?

[mave]

Thanks again Mary A.
I have just spotted the 1871 Census for Thomas and Margaret, Boarders but no children then again William could be with relations. Education Officer could be right if it is this one as he is down as a Mariner.

All the info you gave is fantastic at least I have somethings I can try and check up on,

Mave

[Tina]

Hi Mave
I've sent 2 errors into Anc. for the little Lowe kiddies both transcribed wrongly as Owen.
Alice's birthplace as "Arthon" in 1881 is Aughton in 1871, it's her, as mother Ellen is born Omskirk, same place in 1881 census.

Good luck

Tina

Off Topic
This takes child labour to a new level.
Everton Brow 1871 Wm Low 2yrs Servant