o'toole hughes family

[MaryA]

when i just checked the census they had put down 3 children that have died

So in the column of how many children in total the result was 7? four living and three dead children?

If that's the case then it doesn't really matter about those that are deceased, I was interested to know if there were any older ones who were still living.

[chughes1964]

sorry about the confusion, yes there were 7 children born alive 3 died and 4 living, here is what i found around 1910/1912:-


O TOOLE, James Head Married M 39 1872 Porter Cotton Liverpool Lancs
O TOOLE, Mary Ellen Wife Married F 39 1872 Shopkeeper General Liverpool Lancs 17 years
O TOOLE, Margaret Daughter F 6 1905 Liverpool Lancs
O TOOLE, Mary Daughter F 6 1905 Liverpool Lancs
O TOOLE, Annie Daughter F 4 1907 Bootle Lpool
O TOOLE, Catherine Daughter F 1 1910 Bootle Lpool
BURNS, Catherine Visitor Widow F 55 1856 Spinner Linen Belfast Resident

there were 4 living chidren and 3 died
54 Boreland St Bootle County:
Lancashire

i should have posted this in the 1st place sorry, just a bit stupid sonetimes

chris

[chughes1964]

oops soory, that last bit on the census should be, 4 children living and 3 that had died a total of 7

chris

[chughes1964]

i have been doing some research and my great grandmothers maiden name was redmond, she married james o'toole 1893, i got a copy of the marriage document from our lady of reconciliation rc liverpool, they put my great grandfathers father as denis redmond they say that this is probably a slip of the pen and should read o'toole, my great grandmothers father was james redmond, it doesnt give anymore details only the address`s, there is too much coincidence for mary redmond not to be my great grandmother, marrying a james o'toole, the names of the children, and she died in 1918,

thanks for your help

chris

[MaryA]

I'm not sure where you want us to take it from here, ie whether you have a subscription to a site to search the censuses or whether you would like us to try to look the families up for you, so just to start you off here is the census for 1891

50 Portland Street, St Martin, Liverpool
James Redmond Head M 59 Labourer Ireland
Margaret Wife M 46 Housekeeper Lancashire Liverpool
Marcela Corson? daur Wid 24 Shop Woman " "
Elizabeth daur S 20 Shop Girl " "
Mary E daur S 18 " " "
Sarah daur S 16 Domestic Servant " "
Joseph Corson? Grandson 2 " "
RG12; Piece: 2901; Folio 117; Page 30

Marcella Redmond married Joseph Carson in 1887 at Our Lady of Reconciliation Church.

[chughes1964]

thank you mary,

you have already been a big help in finding my family history and i am grateful to you for that

i was just posting an update, i do not have a subscription to any site, i would be grateful of any help anyone can give,

thanks again

chris

[MaryA]

Still at 50 Portland Street in 1881 - at least you can now pinpoint James's birthplace
James Redmond Head M 45 General Labourer Dublin
Margreth Wife M 38 Liverpool
Marcela daur 14 Scholar "
Elizabeth " 10 " "
Seragh " 6 " "
Thomas son 4 "
James son 1 "
RG11; Piece: 3598; Folio: 14; Page: 21

1871
8 Block, 71 St Martin Cottages, St Martin, Liverpool
James Redmond Head M 35 Dock Labourer Ireland
Margaret Wife M 27 Lancashire Liverpool
Marcella daur 4 " "
James son 2 " "
Elizabeth daur 3 weeks " "
Marcella Mother Wid 63 Ireland
RG10; Piece: 3761; Folio: 60; Page: 35

There is a possibility that the marriage is of James Redmond and Margaret Hodkinson Q2 1866 Liverpool 8b 487, this couple is confirmed on Liverpool History Projects as having married in St Anthony's. I would think that the birth for Marcella might be the most unusual to search for, but be aware that there are two of the same name born approximately similar time, the other to parents John and Jane so be sure to request the one with father James.

I only see one entry in the index
Marcella Redmond Q2 1867 Liverpool 8b 8

PS I just noticed from the censuses that the other Marcella was born in Ireland, so I think this must be the correct birth.

[MaryA]

I think this might be the family in 1861

11 Newport Street, 2nd Terrace, St Martins, Liverpool
All born Ireland except where stated
Michael O'Bile Head M 50 Dock Labourer
Fanny Wife M 50
Michael Gilesby Boarder Unm 30 Dock Labourer
Marcella Redmond Mother Wid 44 (name has an ink blob over it but looks very much like Marcella to me)
James son Unm 27 Dock Labourer
Elizabeth daur 12 Scholar
James Jeffrey " " 20 Dock Labourer
John Prilate? " " 24 "
Henry Coake " Mar 25 Boiler Maker Lancashire
Thomas Parker Head Mar 26 Royal Navy England
Ann Wife Mar 31 Ireland
RG9; Piece: 2658; Folio: 144; Page: 67

[chughes1964]

thank you very much mary that is a big help,

chris

[chughes1964]

you have been a big help finding the history of my grandmothers family, and i feel cheeky asking but would you be able to help me finding out about my grandfather william hughes,

thanks

chris

[MaryA]

My grandmother married william hughes(born aug 1911) around 1933 and had 8 children. Any information about my grandad would be appreciated also, I dont know much just that my great granddad was robert hughes, my granddad had 3 sisters, sarah(sally), hannah, catherine(who were put in a orphanage when great granddad remaried)

There are seven William Hughes born in the 3rd Quarter of 1911 so it's not easy to be sure which of these is yours. You seem to be aware of the date of your grandfather's birth and his father's name, so with this information you need to obtain his birth certificate so that we can be sure of his mother's name. From there we will hopefully be able to pinpoint his parents marriage and work our way further back.

Using the address from his birth certificate, you may be able to check the 1911 census http://www.1911census.co.uk/ to see if they were living there earlier in the year and which children were already born. Perhaps you know if the others were younger or older than William?

[chughes1964]

thank you for that, i will get my grandfathers birth certificate, i think the girls where older than him, because i was told he ran away to st helens when he was 14

thanks for your help

chris

[chughes1964]

thinking about my last post, i dont think the girls could have been older, because they would have probably too old to be put in an orphanage

chris

[MaryA]

Then you may only find the parents in the 1911 census, maybe at the address on the birth certificate, but that's what's worth looking into.

[chughes1964]

great news a cousin i didnt know about read a post on another site and got in touch his granmother was annie o'toole my grandmothers sister, his mum knows loads about the o'tooles, my great grandmother was mary ellen redmond and this is what he has told me so far,

There where actually 5 girls, Veronica being the youngest, Margaret (Maggie), Mary, Annie & Kate.
Our great grandma's maiden name was actually Mary Ellen Redmond, she had siblings Tom, Sarah and Marcella. she married James Lawrence O'Toole in Bootle.They owned a grocery shop in Boreland St, Bootle which Mary ran. He worked as a shipping clerk for Howland and Wolfe, he must of been very good at his job as he was R.C. and they only generally employed C.O.E. . They had a pretty good quality of life, some of the girls received private music tuition at home. Mary didnt actually die during child birth, but whilst she was carrying child she died of the 1918 Flu epidemic, and the child died with her, (apparently she may of conceived upto 15 kids, she lost atleast 2 boys and a girl within 10 months of each other.) This was when James placed 2 of their daughters into the convent, my nan Annie and Kate, the other girls remained with him, but he struggled to cope. He did remarry, and his main reason for this was to get the girls out of the convent and back home. We only know her as Mrs. Sutcliffe, who lived in the same street as them and helped out with the kids when james was working, it seems she was quite keen to claim him as hers though, apparently she had said to her neighbours that he would be her next husband and sure enough, she had her way, although it sounds like he only married her out of duty as she claimed she was pregnant, but didnt actually have kids until later in the relationship. Veronica went to live with her aunt Marcella in Elden Rd off Scotland Rd, she couldnt of lived with her aunt Sarah as she was blind and also had a family of her own. My mum remembers going to Aunt Sarahs.
James died 18 months after Mary.left no will and everything he had went to wicked step mother including sovereigns and savings, as she later paid an aunt £25 to take the girls, she had kids of her own who didnt get on with James. i am going to get in touch with his mum and find out more, thank you all for your help especially maryA

chris

[MaryA]

I'm so glad you have made a contact, makes it all worthwhile doesn't it? good luck

[chughes1964]

yes it does make it worth while and i couldnt have done it without your help, thank you again

chris