Ellison/Roberts - A family mystery ?

[Pegasus]

I have never heard of nuns in any other religion other than RC.

I have! check out this Link for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_religious_order

[dickiesam]

I have never heard of nuns in any other religion other than RC.

I have! check out this Link for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_religious_order

Me too! Even met a couple of Anglican nuns who were sisters of a friend. They had bigger wimples than your average RC nun.

[VicMar1]

I have! check out this Link for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_religious_order

Thanks Pegasus, I did and maybe the franciscan orders could do with some further looking into ?

[MaryA]

Well you learn something new every day, thanks lads.

[VicMar1]

Looks like the 'second order' of St Claire would have been likely candidates for the boyhood memories but I will try and find out what their involvement might have been at the turn of 20th century, could be of use to others as a consideration even if it doesnt help my quest ? This Order as a whole would seem to have been very active after 1905 when they were re-introduced to England after being kicked out by Henry a lot earlier ?

http://www.anglicanfranciscans.org/

Apparently there are many of this order who are members of Hospital visiting groups these days.

[VicMar1]

Helena Letitia Ellison baptised Jan 1897 St Patrick's mother Martha A Ellison nee Reilly and father Robert Ellison.

Hmmmm! This one nearly got away ! It certainly fits the profile and the area ?
I hadn't seen this as the cursory look I had given St Patricks revealed only Dox till the mid 1800's were available (on line)?
Given the loose accreditation and spelling of names and the casual use of favoured names taking priority within my family so far, then 'Letitia' "Ellenn", 'Ellie' and 'Helena Letitia' are all on my radar. Guess I will have to check this out at the Library before ordering BC's etc ?
Thanks Sharon, what is the ref for this info or how did you get at it,please (P.M ?)

[MaryA]

[Alison C]

Hello,

On the 1911 census, little Annie appears to have a middle initial "F". I can't see any birth regs for Annie F Roberts, but there is one for Annie Frances Ellison on FreeBMD:

Births Jun 1905
Ellison Annie Frances
Toxteth Park, vol 8b, p164

Anc would appear to have a potential baptism for Annie:

Anna Francis Ellison, father Roberti, mother Annae Reilly.

(I don't have full Anc membership, so I can't see all the details).

In which case it looks like Robert Elgin Ellison was indeed (Martha) Ann Ellison's first husband and he was still alive in 1905ish.

Unfortunately, doesn't help clarify if David Roberts and Horatio Roberts were one and the same

Alison xx

[MaryA]

Although the parents surname says Ellis, as the child's name is noted twice, both Ellison, I would suspect this to be the accurate name and Ellis a mistake.

[VicMar1]

Many Thanks to Alison C for her post, I cant keep up ! I am having difficulty in combining Robert Elgin into the mix. The 1901 census at 1 in 11 crt; Park Rd with William and Ellen L declares Ann as 'Head' which I had taken previously to mean widowed/abandoned? It is now possible as he was a seaman, that he was away at sea and still alive ? Cant quite resolve the difference in address between these new baptism finds !
I had been ruminating about an earlier suggestion involving a Helena Letitia Ellison when it dawned on me that Helena would have been the 'latinised' name for Ellen.
It also strikes me that DS's suggestion earlier about "kickin' with both feet" might just have some traction,especially with these discoveries ?
Thank You for all of your time and effort it is very much appreciated.
Even managed to tie up Horatios Parents marriage today.
I know it seems a leap of faith concerning Horatio being 'Davio' on the 1911 census but I am certain as anyone can be that it is him. I have too many documents tying him to 2 in 3 crt, both before and after 1911 and with/without the Cogill 'handle', a few of his siblings,both Male and Female,intermittently used the same name 'cogill' also, at total random apparently. (more mysteries ?)
As my other post was fairly conclusive that 2 Town View (the 1911 census is only place that calls the address Town View)is one and the same I will leave it at that and forever wonder how the heck it became Davio ?
Mind you,I can imagine what the dockworkers of 1911 would have made of a west-countryman called Horatio Cogill in 'the pen' ??
(on a lighter note-maybe he had a friend called Trigger who gave him the name ?
"Allright Dave ?")

Any tips for researching South Africa C1900's ? especially Natal/Tanganyika ?

[dickiesam]

Mind you,I can imagine what the dockworkers of 1911 would have made of a west-countryman called Horatio Cogill in 'the pen' ??

Also bear in mind that the 1911 census form was apparently completed by Ann Roberts. Perhaps it was she who 'preferred' David. She did write Cornwall as his place of birth and it would appear that the enumerator then enquired as to where in Cornwall and was told Penzance, which he then wrote it onto the Household Return.

As I previously suggested, it would be interesting to find out the name of the father on the birth certs [or even baptisms] for the two children apparently born to Ann and 'David'. Although, from the cert that MaryA posted and the birth that Alison found that Annie Roberts was bn Annie Ellison. Points to the 'years married' entered by her mother as being a fiction. The plot thickens......

So who was the child George's father?
Given that Annie's birth was registered in Toxteth Park, could this be George?
Births Mar 1910:
ROBERTS George Henry Toxteth Park 8b 171

Or maybe one of these, the only GE births in the same time frame for 1 year old in April 1911...
Births Jun 1910:
ELLISON George W. Derby 8b 342
ELLISON George Roe W. Derby 8b 619

[MaryA]

Baptisms on Ancestry go only to 1906, so the Record Office would be needed to check a baptism at the date DS has found.

[VicMar1]

Following up on one of your earlier discoveries MaryA, I discovered who was NOT living in 6 Caryl Street any longer during 1911 ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhistory/html ... ad=7308631

[MaryA]

It's a small world

[VicMar1]

Indeed it is ! And hopefully getting smaller for the Ellison/Roberts family ?
An absolutely marvellous discovery.
Thanks to all and will report back in due course when I have thoroughly investigated this thread and where it may lead ? After 3 years of very little result on this strand of the family, I am again revitalised. Cautious but hopeful ?

[MaryA]

Good luck and we look forward to hearing updates.

[VicMar1]

Name:
Robert Elgin Ellison, Seaman
Birth Year:
abt 1864
Age:
28
Marriage Date:
25 Jan 1892
Parish:
Ancoats, All Souls
Parish as it Appears:
Manchester, All Souls
Father's Name:
James Ellison, Boatman
Spouse's Name:
Martha Ann Riley, Laundress
Spouse's Father's Name:
William Riley, ???

Thought we'd cracked it with this one but now I seem to have hit a problem (Religion, yet again ?)
Ellen L is most definitely R/C and the baptism and subsequent confirmation records I have since discovered nails that down, but this church (if it is indeed Ancoats) is most definitely Church of England?.
Also,but perhaps not too important is the mismatched surname spelling for 'Martha' Riley- Reilly.
Back to the wheel again!

[MaryA]

You would be right I'm sure not to hold too much importance to an incorrect surname spelling, we just never know who wrote it down and how much of a guess they made as to spelling. The difference in religion might be a stumbling block however, unless they happened to live on the doorstep and just used the church, or if the father was C of E and she just went along with it.

Only thinking about this as my grandmother was strict RC, or so I thought but she apparently married my grandfather in the register office rather than the church, where her first marriage had taken place. We know he was not a religious man and probably wouldn't have bothered getting married at all if he had been forced into a church for the occasion.

[VicMar1]

Looks like your GrandPa and I have a lot in common ?
Could it be possible that maybe they used this Anglican church by way of a registry office seeing as R/C churches would need to have a registrar present at their ceremonies ?
Or as dickiesam suggested earlier "One of them was RC but the other kicked with the opposite foot." ?
I think I will begin by ordering the certs for Annie and for Ellen Letitia today and from there try to determine a solid connection, thanks again all.

[VicMar1]

dickiesam wrote "For your mother to be taken in and raised by nuns as a Roman Catholic she would have to have been baptised as a Catholic."

I have made some remarkable discoveries with my searches since my last post and hopefully will be able to conclude with one last missing piece of the puzzle if anyone can help me find a baptism for a Valentine MARY Roberts, probably in West Derby, but could be anywhere in the Merseyside area, would guess it to be around Everton Terrace and would be during 1912 - 14 period.
As MaryA suggested, Anc*** is unable to go past 1906 and dont know where to start with the LRO. Any help or advice as to where to look in the LRO would be gratefully received and as always, very many thanks.

(This is going to take some writing up when I get there Mary !)