Information on Hoskins and Holden Families and a brick wall.

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Thanks for jumping straight in with information, are you related to this family?

[JSugnall+215]

Ken. I have a long-term interest in Harold Hoskins, as one of the boys from the Sheltering Home who died in WW1. I was therefore fascinated to stumble on your post, and your exchanges with bertie1.These prompted me to look at my material, and to do some more digging. I realise you may have material which you haven't posted, so forgive me if it is old hat.
THE OLDER GENERATION : Children of Henry R and Mary S D Hoskins (From Familysearch and FreeBMD)(All have Henry and Mary named as parents at baptism).
Alexander - 1844*
Henry - Sept. 1845
Harvey - Nov. 1845
Alan - 1846*
Henry Ambrose - 1848*
Pudsey Dawson -1851*
Richard Dawson - 1853*
William Dawson - 1855
Charles Dawson -1858*
Cecil Dawson - 1860*
Mary Dawson - 1864*
* -also found on FreeBMD

Henry and Harvey are a bit odd, as they have different baptismal dates, a few weeks apart. They could be infant deaths; from another source I found a possible Henry death in 1845 at 8 weeks + a definite Richard Dawson Hoskins in 1854, at 4 months.

Some other possible dates from FreeBMD:
1849 B of Josephene Gostenhofer. West Derby
1874 ??D of Alexander. Liverpool (31)
1879 D of Henry Ribton. Liverpool (65)
1888 D of Josephene (Gostenhofer) Hoskins. Ormskirk (39)
1894 D of Mary Seaman Dawson Hoskins. Toxteth Park (75)
1895 D of Alan. Toxteth Park (48)
1904 D of Pudsey West Derby (53)
The distinctive names help in most cases, and ages added to birthdates, but Alexander and Alan would need death certificates to confirm.

Regards
John

[Bertieone]

Alexander Hoskins

[Bertieone]

Alan Hoskins married Martha Annie Whitfield, 1876, St Brides, Liverpool.
Fathers, Henry Ribton Hoskins, Gentleman. Stephen Whitfield, Mariner.

Alan Hoskins Death, 1895,

[Ken Holden]

Thank you again!

[Ken Holden]

Jsugnall+215:

Thank you as well. I have some of this information.

The information that you and Bertieone has shared is helping to not only confirm details that I have but also clear us some spelling. Also to let us know some more details of the story of the Holden children who came to Canada when their parents James and Eva died. I have the Barnardo's record for my father Frederick as well as for his brother Walter. Their sisters Lucy and Winifred all were placed in the same local area of Canada that their uncle Charles had emigrated to. The information the has been uncovered in my research is that the families on both sides assisted in the placements and that my father in particular was very well treated where he was placed.

I'm working on organizing my information now so I can reference it more easily. There are now several new family lines for to research on the Holden side. As well as details that point to new locations to search. As always I try to research a bit about the locations and times they lived in to help me paint a better picture of the lives they lived. It helps to understand history in proper context.

I'm curious to find out what happened to Herbert Sinclair Holden and George Austin Holden. In addition I will be trying to locate my cousins in England who we've lost track of.

Thanks again!

[Ken Holden]

I found a copy of the Kelly's Directory for Liverpool in 1894. http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/ ... 82/rec/296

There are matches to several of the names of Hoskins and Holden family members in my search, including addresses. You might find it useful for cross referencing with census records.

Putting historical pieces like this together makes me feel sometimes like I've discovered a time machine and I can go back and get a glimpse of my ancestor's past.

[JSugnall+215]

The boys in Canada.
The 3 boys would probably have been placed in the Eastern Townships from Knowlton, but not necessarily on the same farmstead. Sometimes they were sent to southern Ontario. However, we know that, by 1911, Harold and Cecil had acquired adjacent farmsteads in Saskatchewan. However, I have been unable to identify Pudsey/Percy ANYWHERE in the 1911 census, but by 1915 he too had presumably migrated west, as he enlisted at Biggar, Sask. in Dec.
I am not clear if you have looked at his on-line Attestation Paper. His service number is deleted, so we can't identify which unit he joined, but at some point he was promoted to lieutenant (quite unusual for a Home Boy, in my experience).
I HAVE looked at Harold's full file in Ottawa, which contains some interesting things.Though he names Cecil as his Next of Kin , his will and assigned pay are for a Miss Scally (described as 'friend') of Avenue R South, Sakatoon. Also mentioned is a Mrs S.A. Thompson (in the same street), who was to receive his medals.
However, the commemorative Plaque and Scroll were to go to Charles, at 113 Symonds St., Sydney, Australia [so much for the pervasive allegation that Home Children were 'torn from their families' and 'lost touch with relatives'].
Harold and Percy would have received 2 of the 3 war service medals - the British War Medal and the Victory Medal (The 1914-15 Star went only to those who saw action before Dec. 1915). There would also have been a Memorial (or 'Silver') Cross, which went to the kin of a soldier killed in the war -presumably Harold's medals went to Mrs Thompson.

Pudsey/Percy is curiously elusive; even if he used the latter, Hoskins is a relatively uncommon surname, and 'Dawson' is such a useful middle name for tracing the family!! I have a few sketchy clues -I will keep looking.

John

[Ken Holden]

I'd have to look again but I'm pretty sure that Cecil, Harold and Pudsey, were all placed on farms in Biggar Saskatchewan by 1911. They came over along with their sister Lucy when their parents Cecil Dawson Hoskins and Marion Pugh had passed away. Lucy Hoskins was placed in St. Catharines, and married Fred MacKenzie.

When Pudsey enlisted they changed his name to Percy. On the attestation papers that I saw online, It listed the unit he was placed in as the 46th Battalion. This is confirmed by the Commonwealth War Graves records which lists his unit and him dying at a field hospital the same day he was injured, the unit war diary for the 46th Battalion in which there is an entry on May 1st 1917 during the battle of Arras where he was wounded in action , and on page 258 of the Canadian Roll of Honour for WW1. I posted his story in the forum section on stories for posterity: http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... 16&t=14318

I was able to contact cousins in B.C. Canada where Charles Dawson Hoskins' children eventually settled. I did get part of Charles' story from my cousins. I'm not sure what year, but Charles went to sea leaving Liverpool and arriving in Sydney where he married and had one son. Tragically his wife and son were killed in a bushfire and Charles left Australia and went to St. Catharines Ontario Canada. I have a marriage record of him marrying a Lizzie LeBreton of Bootle, and they had two sons Philip and Wilfred. After Lizzie passed away, they went out west to Biggar Saskatchewan and later moved to British Colombia. This would have been some time after 1929.

The date of 1929 I know because that is when Aunt Lucy, uncle Walter, father Frederick, and aunt Winifred (Winnie) came over. In the records I have received from Barnardo's and from Canadian archives, I have discovered that Walter was placed in Cayuga and after a year went to live with an aunt. The aunt's address is different that the one I have for Charles and Lizzie, so they either moved or it was another aunt possibly Lucy Hoskins. My father was placed in Wellandport and stayed on that farm for 12 years. He was treated like their own son. I have archival copies of pages from Ups and Downs that show letters he wrote, many donations $5 was a lot in those days, and a mention of his visit on returning from WW2 he visited the Canadian Head office in Toronto. I'm not sure where their sister Lucy was placed but she was in the area as they had photos of her in St. Catharines. Shortly after Winifred arrived, Lucy decided to return to England. My father was also sponsored by an aunt with a last name of Shuttleworth, which is a name that appears in the 1891 census - a James Shuttleworth is listed as part of the household.

Dad's family was able to keep in touch due to the support of family in both countries, as well as him being able to visit when he was stationed in England in WW2 at the Carter Barracks in Bulford with the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion. We have photos of him in uniform with family members. In 1970, dad and mom went to visit relatives and he looked nervous on the plane. The stewardess asked him if he was nervous about flying. His reply became the humorous moment of the trip. He said, "I'm not afraid of flying, I've been in a plane 12 times and a hot air balloon once, but I've never landed." The stewardess looked perplexed until he explained that in the paratroopers, he had gone up each time and jumped out!

In the early 1980s we had a visit from my uncle Philip who brought part of the family tree. Together with what my dad and uncle Doug put together they had a decent framework for research. There is a note that Percy died in 1973. It would probably have been in Saskatchewan as he returned to the family farm. I'm trying to track down Cecil and his children as one of them was named after Harold.

I am in the process of tracing the relatives in Canada and trying to reconnect with the ones back in England. Currently I only have contact with my aunt Eva the only surviving sibling of my father, and her son, as well as my aunt Sheila the wife of my uncle Doug who passed away several years ago. I know he names of my cousins in England and Scotland but aren't sure where to look to find them.

I have to do some digging to contact the relatives that I have an idea where they are and see if they remember where the others are. There are two lost uncles Herbert and George Holden that I'm trying to locate what happened to them in Liverpool. They were the siblings from the second marriage and came between Elsie and Lucy Holden.

The Hoskins name in the middle of our tree that I have been able to confirm is one mentioned in Burke's peerage: Henry Ribton Hoskins. The Dawson name comes in when Henry marries Mary Seamund (Seaman) Dawson. From that point on until the line of my uncles, the males were given the middle name of Dawson. On our tree, there are some unclear lines drawn back as far as Sir William Hoskins KB who married Anne Tinge.

I have an extensive layout of the tree which I am now in the process of updating and clarifying. I think we could compare notes.

John, are you in Canada or did you look at Harold's record in Ottawa during a visit? I'm in Hamilton Ontario. Let me know and we may be able to have a visit if you're not too far away. I travel a bit to see relatives so it may be possible to sit and compare notes.

[JSugnall+215]

Food for weekend thought????

Irene Elva Hoskins d Vancouver 8 Feb 1962. Age 63.
Next of Kin: Percy Dawson Hoskins, Vancouver

[Ken Holden]

Good golly miss Molly! Information has been coming in fast and furious. I have received a package from western Canada that contained various pieces of information including copies of several family trees current up to 1999. I have found numerous minor errors but a treasure of new information on the Hoskins side. I have also made new contacts with older Hoskins family members who are trying to share stories.

Big news on the Holdens!!! As a result of information shared here, I have been able to go through the Holden records I had as well as revisit old photos. I knew we had some Liverpool photos but we also have one of Uncle George, the youngest son of James Holden and his second wife Maude. In addition, the findmypast free weekend provided me with further information. James and Sarah Holden lived at 55 Guelph St. and their daughter Jane married James Shuttleworth and moved into 57 Guelph St. sometime before 1901.

Those houses still exist and Google maps and street view show some interesting things about the family addresses and houses.

I was wondering if anyone could do a lookup of who was living at 85 Everton Terrace in 1929.

Is there a map of Liverpool bomb damage that I could use to locate whether family houses were lost in WW2 or to urban redevelopment? I'm trying to find out what happened to that house and to 40 Boaler St.

I've uncovered a great deal of information on how much family support there was through several tragedies and in addition how much support there was from Barnardo's through the Liverpool Sheltering Home. I also mentioned in another thread that there was a mass migration pre WW1 to the area where my father was placed near my uncle Charles. The level of detail that I have been able to uncover so far is astounding.

I'll keep an eye out for Irene Hoskins and let you know what I find. Chances are she's in the package I received.

Thanks for all your help!

[MaryA]

There seems to be a gap in directories held by our members between 1911 and 1937, see http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... 16&t=13794

You may have a little luck checking the online directories, but not sure if they come as recent as 1929 http://cdm16445.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ ... 16445coll4

Otherwise it would need to be a look up at the Liverpool Record Office and this week I'm unable to make any promises as I believe we will be shorthanded at the Help Desk and may not get any spare time to ourselves.

[Blue70]

Kelly's Directory 1938

Everton Terrace

85 Broadbere Ian Cedric ship's steward



Blue

[Ken Holden]

I'm looking for information on a family member.

Mrs. Shuttleworth 85 Everton Terrace is all that is listed in the records I have. I am looking for other information sources that will tell me more.

It seems my family sometimes have the habit of having children in between censuses and then moving!

[MaryA]

1929 - 85 Everton Terrace
John Cornelius Burton and Kathleen Burton
James, Jane and Reginald Shuttleworth

[Bertieone]

James Shuttleworth, 21, bachelor.
Marriage
22 Jan 1889
Kensington, Christ Church
Jane Holden, 20, spinster

Father's
James Shuttleworth , deceased, Slater
James Holden, Licenced Victualler.

Witnesses, George Holden, Mary Ellen Hughes

[Ken Holden]

Thanks! This marriage was one of the next pieces I was looking for.

I spent some time on findmypast last weekend and uncovered a number of census records on several branches of the family. When Jane Holden and James Shuttleworth married they moved into 57 Guelph St. next door to her parents James and Sarah who lived at 55 Guelph St., who also had Jane's oldest brother George living with them as well as George's two children. Something must have happened to George's wife and he moved back home with his parents.

The information on who lived at 85 Everton Terrace in 1929 identifies that Jane was the aunt in England who sponsored my father and his brother Walter to come to Canada through the LSH. Their oldest sister Lucy had already left through the LSH to live with Charles D. Hoskins in St. Catharines. Two years later they helped Winnie come over. I have been methodically piecing together details of the Holden line and have through census records discover that they were a close knit group that helped each other through difficult times. It is interesting to note that many of the names I am uncovering appear in old photos of our family album.

In 1928 my James Holden died of peritonitis, possibly due to surgery. In 1929 Eva was sitting in the second story window when she fell and did not recover from her injuries. There was a coroner's inquest and it was ruled accidental. Any information on either James or Eva's death would be appreciated. I have four different explanations of what happened and I am fairly certain that the accidental ruling is correct.

What I do know is that as soon as the accident happened , it was only a short distance from 40 Boaler St. to 85 Everton St. to get help from the rest of the family. It is amazing to look at Google street view and see these locations, some of which like 40 Boaler don't exist as they were but the houses in the block of 227 Boaler look to be about the right vintage to be similar to what my grandparent's house must have been like. 85 Everton Doesn't exist, but 55 and 57 Guelph St do look like they are the same houses where my great great grandparents lived! Neat stuff!