Cold Case - Next thing to get your teeth into?

[MaryA]

maybe they were Elizabeth's children? from before her marriage to Thomas.

Is that from before her marriage to William? No wonder we are getting confused, there are too many families

[simone]

Sorry yes Mary, from before her marriage to William

where's Col, hasn't she sorted it yet
it's killing me, and I've got to go to work tomorrow

Simone x

[MaryA]

it's killing me, and I've got to go to work tomorrow

Me too, but don't forget it's been a mystery to me for about 10 years so I have patience with this lady, I know one day something will click into place and there she will be.

We've come a long way so far, much further than I ever have before anyway, thanks to you all.

I think Col will join in when she wakes up

[colette]

Hi Mary

My brain is fried haaaaaaaaaaaa..

Where is son William in 1881 ???



xx

[simone]

Hi Col

Do you mean son William Hosker

Simone x

[colette]

What a tangle Mary...could be a bit like the Haswell case shes says Thomas and he puts down Kent..her dad may have been a Thomas but not Kent..some other name.. then her mum marries a Kent, but hes not a Thomas if you get my drift.

I was asking where is Margaret's son William in 1881 is he with Lunt rellies whilst Margaret is working ..

xx

[MaryA]

No Col, but I wasn't complicating this thread by including that little mystery. My mum says (but then she's daughter-in-law so wouldn't have had the story first hand) that he was supposed to have been "farmed out to relatives". But he wasn't with any Lunt relatives that I know of.

William Richardson Lunt
In 1886, in the Application Book to the Bluecoat School there were a few entries but no headings to the columns, however most of them were fairly self explanatory, except the one entry - 11 Lucerne Street. I'm assuming that he was living at this address but the couple living there in 1881 don't mean anything to me

Christopher Prior Head M 59 Gardener Melling, Lancashire
Mary Wife M 63 Easing Wold Yorkshire
RG11; Piece: 3652; Folio: 40; Page: 14

Don't waste your time looking at the Green family, wife Elizabeth and mother in law Margaret Lunt (I think in Boundary Street from memory), because these are a different family. William's Aunt Elizabeth Lunt married Samuel Bayley in 1875.

[colette]

Haaaaaaaaaaaa so you havent found Willie in 1881 is that what you mean...

xx

[MaryA]

that's what I mean searched everywhere.

Strange you should call him Willie - that's what my nan (his wife) used to call my dad, their son!

[colette]

Hi Mary

how many siblings did Thomas Richardson Lunt have.. and do you know who they all married..hes gotta be with someone..hes deffo not showing up under LUNT in 1881 LENT OR HUNT anything like that..

This address of Lucerne St Toxteth in 1886 needs to be checked in a directory as near to 1886 if there is one..could be a lead..as you dont just leave your child with anyone..
Margaret must have been a good worker for the family she worked for to help her out.

xx

[MaryA]

Thomas Richardson had siblings -
Oldest brother William, b 1839, never seen again after 1841 census, too many deaths to order certificate.
Sister Hannah with husband James Ayre and sons Oliver and Joseph in Stour Street, Kirkdale RG11; Piece: 3681; Folio: 39; Page: 19
Sister Elizabeth with husband Samuel Bayley and children (both stepchildren to Elizabeth as well as her own) in 27 Highfield Road, West Derby RG11; Piece: 3713; Folio: 104; Page: 50
Elizabeth was living in 18 Highfield Road in 1886 when she was informant on her mother's death certificate.
and Sister Margaret b 1848 d 1850.

Family stories told that Margaret had become a wet nurse, which led me to discover the birth and death of William's younger sister Mary Ellen (1877-1878).

As for the Rogersons who she worked for, they appeared well to do and I suspected that the lady of the house was one of those who "did good works" and possibly made the recommendation that William should enter the Bluecoat School.

[colette]

Hi Mary

It appears William R Lunt was living with the Warringtons Thomas & Elizabeth in 1881 & 1891 in 1881 hes down as William Janet.. when you look it is Lunt.. i went back one page to page 23 looking for someone whos name started with a L i found Thomas Lamb,, same first letter as Lunt.

He was there a while wasnt he..so hes there then he goes the Bluecoat then he goes back there..wondering if there is a connection..to Margaret with this family... Elizabeth Warrington was born Liverpool maiden name Aspinall in 1832..

in 1851 they are at St Michaels

John Warrington Married Visitor b Cheadle Staffs 37
Elizabeth Warrington age 18 Visitor b Lpool
Thomas Warrington age 22 or 23 House Servant b Cheadle Staffs

I think this is his brother and his wife visiting.. as it looks like head of house is a Joseph Davies Coachman
xx

[MaryA]

Oooooh Colette!!! I can't believe I never looked back at this family. With him having gone to the Bluecoat I wouldn't even have thought he'd be there, I thought they were boarders, but maybe not, he could have lived with them all through. What a star you are!!!

Seems he was with them for longer than he was in his apprenticeship which was on 29th Oct 1890 to Loundes, Lloyd & Hilton, in Brunswick Street, Solicitors I believe I thought the next door neighbour in 1891 might have also worked in the Solicitors and helped him find lodgings. Sometime after this he must have been passing Elliot Street and persuaded Jack Pride to teach him hairdressing.

William's eldest son was named Ernest, it wasn't until his second son that was named William after himself, I researched a little about the Prides and found that the eldest son was Ernest so I think he must have mentored young Willie who named his first born after him, now don't you think that's lovely.

Once again you are the star of the forum Colette, solved one of my mysteries I've had for years. Thanks so much.

Mary

[simone]

Hi

That's a brill find Col wonder why he was with them for so long, could be some sort of connection as you say

I'm dipping in and out but can't seem to get back to have a proper look at the mo... kids and running around still, don't want to lose track with this mystery

Simone x

[colette]

The reason i thought of him was because you never mentioned were he was in 1881..and i was assuming he may have lived in with his mother, but when i looked at her.. and he wasnt there..i thought i would ask..

To be with that family for so long.. his mother must have known them..i am wondering now if Lucerne St was were they were living in 1886..





xx

[simone]

This could be absolutely nothing, but as I've got to go out now, just making a note of it before I lose it to look at later in case connected.

from Lancs BMD 1854
Marriage
ASPINALL Ellen
EVANS Thomas
Liverpool, St. Philip
2123LP/11/2

back again train station drop

found the possibles for this couple but can't see any connection straight off.. Was hoping Thomas may be connected to Jane? too difficult to be certain, his mum poss born 1776, so not straight forward

something gotta turn up

[simone]

just noticed that Ellen Aspinall b c 1819, re previous post, is living in St Michael Parish, as were Thomas and Elizabeth Warrington (nee Aspinall)
Wonder if Elizabeth and Ellen sisters

1851 census
HO107; Piece: 2188; Folio: 562; Page: 21
Aigburth Road
Elizabeth Aspinall 70 b Jamaica
Ellen Aspinall 32 b Liverpool
Elizabeth Munday 35
Ellen McLocklew 31
Edward Edwards 22


oh the twists and turns

Simone x

[simone]

As an aside Mary, do you know where the Richardson bit came from for her hubby Thomas, Is it from his Staffordshire side

Simone x

[MaryA]

Oooh that name Evans crops up again - it could just be couldn't it!

William's father was Thomas Richardson Lunt, whose mother was Ellen Richardson - this is the Ellen Lunt age 74 living in 15 Deysbrook Lane, West Derby with her grandson James HEIR, actually Ayre. RG11; Piece: 3716; Folio: 113; Page: 7

The Richardsons are farmers from Knowsley.

[colette]

Hi Simone the Richardson name was Thomas Lunt's mums maiden name they were both from Lancashire his father Thomas was a Cord Wainer from West Derby and his mother Ellen was from Knowsley.

I am thinking that there proberbly is no connection to this Thomas & Elizabeth Warrington..maybe Margaret Ann lodged with them at some point.

What i am wondering is why any of Thomas Lunt's family never took young William ??? and why they married in Winwick when they both lived in West Derby/Toxteth..seems odd dont you think..as in 1871 shes working in Wavertree and 1881 in Toxteth.. so why on earth were they marrying in Winwick

xx