Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Can anybody tell me where I could view a copy of the original parish registers of St Peter, Church Street, Liverpool?

These have been transcribed by Liverpool and SW Lancashire Family History Society, and I obtained the following record of marriage from Findmypast.com.

Day: 21
Month: Jan
Year: 1812
Groom Forenames: Isaac
Groom Surname: Timberley
Groom's Parish: Liverpool
Groom's Occupation: Stone Mason
Bride Forenames: Betsey
Bride Surname: Bostock
Bride's Parish: Liverpool
Bride's Condition: Spinster
By Licence: Banns
Place: Liverpool
Description: St Peter, Church St
County: Lancashire
Country: England

I would like to see if the above entry for Isaac Timberley was in fact Isaac Timperley (and perhaps see if there is any additional information?). The date for the marriage would tie in with the birth of my great great grandfather David Timperley (circa 1815), and on David’s marriage certificate his father is stated as Isaac Timperley, occupation stonemason. I have so far been unable to find any record of David’s birth, so I do not know if it was in Liverpool. David was married in Warrington, and then lived in Runcorn for about 20 years before moving to Widnes.

This register is on Microfilm at The Microfilm section 2nd Floor World Museum William Brown Street

www.familysearch.org record the same marriage as Isaac TIMBERLEY and Betsey BOSTOCK so it would definitely be worth looking at the original

Hilary
Ed Officer

Thanks for the above information.

I have just returned home having had a look at the microfilm mentioned above, unfortunately Isaac's name is definitely written as Timberley. However, Isaac could not write, as evidenced by him "making his mark", so it is still possible that the curate conducting the ceremony got the spelling wrong and Isaac was unable to correct him.

Looking at the photograph of the entry I took, it has just occurred to me that their might be another record of the surname, the entry states that the marriage was "by banns". Does anyone know if banns were recorded anywhere, and if so are they available somewhere for viewing?

The Banns would have been recorded, however they may not have all been kept.

If you check the Liverpool Record Office Online Catalogue for 283 PET St. Peter's Church, Church Street the dates mentioned for the Banns Books available are 1915 - 1919.

I would confirm that many mistakes are made in the spelling of surnames, especially due to illiteracy, accents etc.

Hi,

I'm new to this website, but my great, great grandfather was also David Timperley, the stonemason who moved to Widnes from Runcorn. His father was Isaac, born in 1790, but I do not know where he originated from, so I can't help you on your query. David built parts of Widnes Road, as well as the first part of Timperley Street, which is now demolished.

You may be aware of a stone shield on a building adjacent to the Nat West Bank in Widnes Road, with the initials DST 1862 ( David and Sarah Timperley and the year of the build). His wife was Sarah Howard, also of Runcorn, born in 1816.

Hope you have some success in confirming if Isaac Timberley is in fact Isaac Timperley. Please keep in touch.

Hi and welcome to the forum. Tex T is a on the forum so I hope he picks up his notification of your post and responds.

Good luck with your searches.

This marriage might be available here:-

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2247


Blue

Hi Lezz
Welcome aboard and thanks for sharing your interesting information.
All the best
Tina

It does say Timberley on the cert.
Witnesses were Ellis Jones & Wm Lowey, no help as they witnessed other marriages.
There's very little for the above surname but lots for Timperley in Anc@@
Tex, in the census David lists his birthplace as Runcorn.

Tina

Personally I wouldn't be too bothered about the slight change of spelling Temperley, Timperley, Timberley - if they can't read and write the vicar will just spell it how they think. The Isaac marrying in 1812 is a stonemason which seems significant.

Also have you seen the marriage now on Ancestry at St Nicholas Liverpool on 7 May 1792 between an Isaac X Temperley hairdresser of the parish and Mary X Peers of the parish on 7 May 1792.

I wondered if they could be Isaac's parents?

Lezz, thanks for getting in contact. I’m guessing from your surname interests that you are the grandson of Florence Nightingale Fifoot (nee Timperley), which would make you and I third cousins. From my alias you will probably have assumed (correctly) that I am a Timperley, descended from David Timperley’s son Robert.

I have made some more progress since finding the marriage in 1812 of Isaac Timberley. Up to that point I had not found the death of Isaac, but now knowing his wife’s name, I looked for her death. I found this, in Runcorn, on 29.5.1841 (8 days before the census!), the details of which, convince me at least, that I have the right persons and marriage. The death certificate is for Elizabeth Timperley, aged 60, widow of Isaac Timperley, stonemason, informant David Timperley, present at the death.

Now knowing that Isaac had died by 1841 and that his son David was alleged to have been born in Runcorn, I looked for the death of Isaac between 1812 and 1841 in Runcorn’s parish registers and found what I believe to be his death in 1827. The details were, Isaac Tilpenny, aged 50, buried 21.5.1827. My reasons for believing this to be him are because the surname Tilpenny does not seem to exist (for example it does not appear in any census) and because I then found the birth of what I believe to be his son David in 1813 in Runcorn, these details were, David Tilpenny, born 3.9.1813, son of Isaac and Betty, father’s occupation mason. (Prior to this, David’s marriage certificate and census returns indicated a birth year of 1814/15.)

(One mystery I did find in the Runcorn All Saints parish register is the birth of a Sarah Ann Tilpenny (it looks like Tilpenny, or something similar) in 1831 to an Isaac and Elizabeth. It seems unlikely that that this is the same family because Isaac is already dead, and this Isaac is recorded as a labourer. I also cannot find any further record of this Sarah Ann.)

Looking for the birth of Isaac Timperley based on his age at death in the parish register (plus or minus 10 years of 1777) using various sources I have so far found and eliminated a number of possibilities, but one remains, an Isaac Tympany born in 1771. He was baptised 31.3.1771 at Holy Trinity, Bolton le Sands, son of John Tympany & Dorothy, formerly Mackrel, living in Nether Kellet (this from searching http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/, on this website searching for a surname also gets any variants of that surname, which is why Tympany was found when searching for Timperley). Isaac was the tenth of thirteen children, and for the last birth his father’s occupation was listed as a Mason. As well as his father being a mason, two of the above Isaac Tympany’s brothers and many of their male descendants were stonemasons. With this stonemason occupation in common, and that there appears to be no record of this Isaac Tympany after his birth, it seems possible that he is the Isaac Timperley I am looking for. Furthermore, tracing the descendents of the brothers of Isaac Tympany showed that many were known by the surname Timperley by the 1841 census. (I recently contacted a member of the Lancaster Family History Group who has an interest in one of the descendants of one of the brothers of Isaac Tympany in the hope that he might be able to help, but unfortunately it seems that I had more information on the Tympany/Timperley family of North Lancashire than he did.)

Lezz, bearing in mind what I have written above about Isaac Timperley’s year of birth, I would be interested to know why you believe that Isaac Timperley was born in 1790?

Also, you write that David Timperley built parts of Widnes Road. I’m familiar with the house with the namestone and the house next door, but do you know which other building in Widnes Road he was responsible for?

Similarly I have seen his planning application in 1870 for the two houses in Timperley Street directly behind the two houses the family occupied in Widnes Road, did he build others in Timperley Street?

(Incidentally, I have a copy of David Timperley’s will in which he “expresses the wish that his Freehold and Leasehold property should not be sold but kept within the family, and the rents and interests arising from the same be equally divided amongst his children”. This seems to indicate ownership of property, but not the extent of it.)

Hilary, the marriage you mention above in 1792 looks interesting if the birth year of 1790 for Isaac mentioned by Lezz is correct. Let’s see what information Lezz has.

I'm sorry, but I cannot confirm conclusively that Isaac Timperley was born in 1790. I found this date on Genes Reunited, from a family tree researched by someone called Holly Crowley.

Thanks for the above Lezz, I will see if I can get access to the family tree you have mentioned and perhaps try to contact this Holly Crowley to discover where her information came from.

I have replied to your PM regarding the houses in Widnes Road and Timperley Street with another PM.

Okay, this is a real long shot, but we have a Tudor house here in Colchester called Tymperleys. The name is unusual enough for there to be some sort of connection back in time. I'm going to ask an expert how it got its name. It was originally the home of William Gilberd, father of magnetism and Elizabeth I's physician.

http://www.colchestermuseums.org.uk/tym ... mp_qa.html

Will

Thanks for the information above about Tymperleys House, I would be interested in anything you find out about the origin of the name.

Regarding the family tree prepared by Holly Crowley mentioned above by Lezz on Genes Reunited, I sent a message to her yesterday on that website asking about the birth year of Isaac Timperley.

Hi - I received the reply below from a local historian. It looks like the family left Cheshire in the late 1400s, early 1500s. Tymperley was possibly a steward to the Duke of Norfolk. You may be able to find references in wills, etc. It would also be interesting to see how many variations of the name there are if you have your DNA tested.

"The name Tymperleys comes from a place in Cheshire according to Don Scott, who wrote an article on Tymperleys for the Colchester history newsletter.
They moved to Suffolk and were in the Hintlesham area. Don thinks
Tymperleys house was built by the Howard family, the Dukes of Norfolk
for their steward at about the same time as they constructed the Red
Lion hotel for themselves, when they stayed in Colchester. Don thinks
it was occupied by the family of the steward (Tymperley) until about
1540, when it was owned or occupied by a married couple by the name of
Weston and the Weston widow continued to live there until the
Gilberd's of Clare bought it.

Don suggests you go on the Hintlesham Hall website for more about the
Tymperley family."

NB: Hintlesham Hall is now a high class restaurant near Ipswich. See http://www.hintleshamhall.co.uk/

Will

This is a direct link: http://www.hintleshamhall.co.uk/the_hal ... ations.htm

... and there is a Timperley room if you fancy staying there.

W

More from my contact, below. It seems the Tymperleys were related to the Howards. Anybody addressed you as "Your Grace" recently?

====

Further to my last Will, Ann Turner has come back to me with a reference in John Ashdown Hill's lost Landmarks of Medieval Colchester. She writes,

"My source was the book written by John Ashdown Hills on Medieval Colchester's Lost Landmarks. Page 131 refers. It shows that Timperleys was an upper class house probably belonging to the Timperley family from Hintlesham, relatives by marriage of John, Lord Howard, Duke of Norfolk and constable of the castle."
It seems Tymperleys is a different spelling of the same family name.