Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Can anyone find this baptism from 1890 on Ancestry?

From the Liverpool Roman Catholic Baptisms website:
St Joseph's:
Child: William Fry; bn 1890, bpt 1890; Parents William and Elizabeth Fry [nee Pierce].

A William Fry birth was registered in the March qtr of 1890. So is this a transcription mistake for the name of the father or a coincidence that another Elizabeth Pierce married a Fry? I can't find a William Fry/Pierce marriage 1875 - 1890.

Those familiar with my previous post re Peter Fry will know Elizabeth Pierce married my Thomas Fry and was having children around this time. So have I found another previously unknown birth to my couple?

DS

Hi DS

Baptism at St Josephs
William Fry b. 16 Jan 1890 bap. 27 Jan 1890

Parents William and Elizabeth (Pierce) Fry

Matrina fuit Maria Jones

Bit of an new name name there!

Cheers
Erika

erika wrote:Hi DS

Baptism at St Josephs
William Fry b. 16 Jan 1890 bap. 27 Jan 1890

Parents William and Elizabeth (Pierce) Fry

Matrina fuit Maria Jones

Bit of an new name name there!

Cheers
Erika :

Thanks Erika,
Looks like a birth cert is required to clear up this one!
There's something distinctly odd about this Thomas and Elizabeth Fry couple.
In October 1891 they baptise a child, Petrus aka Peter, whose birth hasn't been registered and I cannot find in the 1891 census. The baptism is 4 years after the alleged birth. In the baptism for a Joseph Fry in 1896 she apparently calls herself Catherine... That's the poor lad who's a pauper in an industrial school in 1901.

These things are sent to try us...

DS

DS

Hi DS

Joseph's mother was definitely Elizabeth Pierce on his baptism in 1896, not Catherine.

Will try and look for more later, but the 2nd half has just started and "my boys" take priority over FH

Cheers
Erika

Hi Brian been investigating Fry's and just wondering........

I take it this is Thomas' mum in 1901 who has acquired a daughter Agnes although a widow for a number of years
RG13; Piece: 3423; Folio: 47; Page: 41
at Mill Lane
Elizabeth Fry 59
Agnes Fry 8 daughter
Edward H Fellows 25
Joseph J Sharratt 30
John James Forge 43

by 1911 at Mill Lane
RG14; Piece: 22162

Elizabeth Fry 69
Agnes Frylor McGibbon 19 - the McGibbon looks to be crossed out, and the Frylor looks more like Fry(02)
Alexander Philip 48 boarder
Herbert Clegg 25 boarder

I did find a Clara Agnes Mcgibbon in 1911 and thought connection may be there but Clara's maiden name is Harrison

Agnes marries William Burbage in 1919, no father named on cert, but has Elizabeth Fry Foster mother..

long way of asking but do you know why McGibbon mentioned

can't see a birth reg under Fry or McGibbon.

Simone x

wonder if Peter was a foster child and that's why we can't see birth reg

this could be Agnes


Agnes McKibbion
Jul-Aug-Sep 1892
West Derby
Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 590

baptism at Holy Cross
born 25/8/1892 bapt 10/4/1893
Agnes McKibbin
'This child was brought here in a dying state by the nurse who had charge of it. She could not find out any particulars about the parents'
matrina fuit - Elizabeth Fry

Think you may be onto something there Simone. DS has McGibbon and Burbage on his names of interest

Can't see them in censuses otherwise

Cheers
Erika

oops didn't notice that Erika

bet he knows all about this child then

funny how the nurse didn't know any particulars about the parents, yet knew the name

Simone x

I'm getting so confused now but on the 1911 it says Elizabeth had 9 children of which 4 were living and 5 died. Could well be the right one then.

Cheers
Erika

there's a marriage of a Peter Fry to Alice Brown at St Andrew, Bootle in 1912, possible

still no birth reg for Peter, so given age at baptism I reckon he could be taken in by the Fry's and the baptism was their way of bringing him into the family

Simone x

simone wrote:this could be Agnes


Agnes McKibbion
Jul-Aug-Sep 1892
West Derby
Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 590

baptism at Holy Cross
born 25/8/1892 bapt 10/4/1893
Agnes McKibbin
'This child was brought here in a dying state by the nurse who had charge of it. She could not find out any particulars about the parents'
matrina fuit - Elizabeth Fry

Hi Simone, and everybody!
Yes you guessed right. I know quite a lot about the child Agnes in the 1901 shown as as a daughter to my great g.mother Elizabeth Fry, Thomas Fry's mother. It remained a mystery until the 1911. The child was a McGibbon/McGibbion (etc) and her mother Annie was 15 years old when Agnes was born in August 1892. In the 1891 census her mother is a domestic servant in a 'big house'. Her employers were 2 married brothers whose wives were absent from the household. The birth address for Agnes is the same as her mother's employers in 1891. 'Nuff said?

Agnes' g.mother was a charwoman as was my g.mother and is likely they knew each other. It is probable Agnes was taken in as a foster or nurse-child by Elizabeth. Hence the nurse reference on the baptism cert. Agnes went on to marry William Burbage and in the place for Father's name/occupation on her marriage cert she has 'Elizabeth Fry, Foster mother'.

My g.gran Elizabeth Fry was widowed in 1878 and left with 5 children out of 9 born. Another child died in 1892. I was told she was one tough lady. She died in 1921, 2 years after Agnes married, of "gangrene of right leg following injury to leg in a fall".

And finally,

Simone. Re: Elizabeth Fry 69
Agnes Frylor McGibbon 19 - the McGibbon looks to be crossed out, and the Frylor looks more like Fry(02

It actually reads 'Fry or McGibbon'.

DS

dickiesam
And finally,

Simone. Re: Elizabeth Fry 69
Agnes Frylor McGibbon 19 - the McGibbon looks to be crossed out, and the Frylor looks more like Fry(02

It actually reads 'Fry or McGibbon'.

DS

lol yes of course it does

simone wrote:there's a marriage of a Peter Fry to Alice Brown at St Andrew, Bootle in 1912, possible

still no birth reg for Peter, so given age at baptism I reckon he could be taken in by the Fry's and the baptism was their way of bringing him into the family
Simone x

I think that Peter Fry is the one bn Wigan 1889. He's the only one 1885 to 1895. Births Sep 1889: Fry, Peter - Wigan - 8c - 55.

I am beginning to think it is possible the priest at that baptism didn't have a Latin equivalent for Bertie or Percy and wrote Petrus! Or given the fact they had lost children shortly after birth maybe they did foster a child bn abt 1887... Some mysteries we will never solve.

DS

dickiesam wrote:I am beginning to think it is possible the priest at that baptism didn't have a Latin equivalent for Bertie or Percy and wrote Petrus!
DS

You could very well be right. I believe a baptismal name in the RC Religion had to be a saint's name.

I guess if Peter was fostered or adopted then his birth name and hence registration name may not even have been Fry?

As he was baptised post the 1891 census he may have appeared on that census under his birth/registration name.

Alison

Alison C wrote:I guess if Peter was fostered or adopted then his birth name and hence registration name may not even have been Fry?

As he was baptised post the 1891 census he may have appeared on that census under his birth/registration name.

Alison

Hi Alison,
Although 'adoption' was very informal and had no legal standing until the 1920s, I am thinking along the same lines. He may have been baptised as a Fry but retained his birth name in later censuses, especially as I suspect the 'adoptive' parents emigrated and he was left behind like their son Joseph appears to have been. Impossible to find without a huge stroke of luck. He'll remain one of those mysteries.

DS