Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi again after a long gap
Some of you will remember a search about 4 years ago for the death of James Filson born in Ireland in 1828.
Well I have finally broken down that brick wall with a record of a death at sea in 1903 when he asphyxiated. The records had just been released in
Findmypast so I am delighted to have solved this mystery.

Now just the problem of the birth of John Radcliffe in the 1860s and Sarah Mealey around the same time- this hobby never ends!

Jane

Well done Jane, it's good to hear of a good result. Fingers crossed for your other searches and you know you can always come back here and ask for help.

Hi Jane,
Great to hear there's a finality line under the search for James Filson's death.
Re:

Now just the problem of the birth of John Radcliffe in the 1860s and Sarah Mealey around the same time- this hobby never ends!
Jane

Can you post parents' names for John Radcliffe and Sarah Mealey and where you think they were born?

DS

Hi


The James Filson who died in 1903 was born in 1855 not 1828 sorry

Now for Sarah Mealey she was born around 1857 in Liverpool and I think her mother was Mary and father Thomas (on her marriage certificate in 1875 he is named as deceased). She was the wife of James Filson and she died in 1904.
I have looked under Mealey Mealy Melia etc but cannot find a birth certificate or baptism

John James Radcliffe was born around 1860 and I think his mother was Eliza Jane Radcliffe daughter of Richard Radcliffe and Ann Christian. I found him on the 1861 census living with them. On his marriage certificate in1883 his father is said to be a soldier John James Radcliffe but no such person has ever been found and various things point to his mother being Eliza who then married John Wordsworth. I have looked both in Liverpool and the Isle of Man for a birth certificate but never found one.
He died in 1936

Any help gratefuly received

Jane

Hi Jane,
Trying to get a grasp on the YoBs you have posted, I am intrigued that an 17/18 yr old Sarah would marry a 47 yr old sailor, and according to the 1881 census she was only 17 when she had a child.

Marriages Dec 1875: FILSON, James and MEALEY, Sarah - W Derby - 8b - 671.
Do you have the marriage cert?

I think this is Sarah in 1881:
FILLSON, Sarah - Head - Md - 21 - 1860 - Sailor' wife - Liverpool.
FILLSON, James - Son - 4 - Liverpool.
FILLSON, Thomas - Son - 2 - Liverpool.
FILLSON, Alexander - Son - 0 - 1881 - Liverpool.
Address: 97 New Hedley St, Liverpool.
RG 10 - Piece: 3603 - Folio:65 - Page:57

Haven't found the family in later censuses yet. Can you post the census page references of any sighting you have made up to the year of her death? And post the GRO reference of her death please, because I haven't found that yet either. The only one in the frame makes her born in 1866!
Deaths Mar 1904: FILSON, Sarah - aged 38 - W. Derby - 8b - 305.
I know deaths can be out by a number of years but nearly 10 years is stretching it. So do you have this death cert?

DS

Hi Jane,
I think I have the family in 1901. This time Sarah says she is 36 making her born in 1865! And husband James Filson says he was born abt 1861 in Belfast.
Address: 41 Major Street, Kirkdale, Lancashire.
RG 13 - Piece: 3466 - Folio: 60 - Page: 16

Her age here does fit with the death age, but she must have lost several years along the way otherwise she was a child bride as well as a teenage mum! And apparently James was only 14!

DS

Alexander Filson aged 27 of 54 Boundary Street married Elizabeth Ann Cox aged 21 of same address at St Matthias Church 23 Feb 1907.

His father was given as James Andrew Filson sailor.

Thanks to all of you - you have the correct family and I have all the information on their marriages and deaths but it is the birth of Sarah Mealey sometime around 1857 that I cannot find.

I shall keep looking!

J

janeb wrote:Thanks to all of you - you have the correct family and I have all the information on their marriages and deaths but it is the birth of Sarah Mealey sometime around 1857 that I cannot find.
I shall keep looking!
J

Bear in mind that Sarah's birth may not have been registered. Until the 1870s it was the Registrar's remit to 'find' and record births for which he was paid by 'the each'. It was later that it was the parent's responsibility to register a birth.

Regarding John James Radcliffe, there's a strong possibility that this is his registration. Phonetic mispellings are common and it's the only JJR birth in Liverpool 1850 to 1870.
RATCLIFF, John James
Registration district: Liverpool.
Year/qtr of registration: 1860 / Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 183.

There is also the possibility that his father was neither a soldier nor named John James Radcliffe. It is an strange coincidence that his father's alleged surname is the same as his mother's maiden name. If the 1860 birth is the right one the cert will probably not tell you the name of his father. Unmarried mothers were not permitted to name the father when registering a child. The father had to attend the Registrar in person to consent to his name being on the cert.

DS

Thanks
I do not think this is the correct John James as the parents are William and Ellen Ratcliff and William is an engine driver.

I have several birth certificates for various John Radcliffe/Radcliff Ratcliff etc from 1856 to 1862 and have looked in parish records at St Peters St James etc

He was in the 1861 census as a baby living with Richard and Ann Radcliffe , then in 1871 living with his Uncle Richard Radcliffe then in 1881 living with Jane Wordsworth (who was Eliza Jane/Jane ELiza Radcliffe and who had another child Margaret before she married John Wordsworth in 1869) then in 1891 and 1901 and 1911 with his own family. therefore I think I have the family correct but simply lack the final proof of birth. He died in 1936 but the death certificates in those days did not give date of birth - all very frustrating.
It will probably remain a mystery but one day when I am retired I may have more time to pursue.

Thanks again for all your help

Jane

Hi,
Re:

I do not think this is the correct John James as the parents are William and Ellen Ratcliff and William is an engine driver.

I have several birth certificates for various John Radcliffe/Radcliff Ratcliff etc from 1856 to 1862 and have looked in parish records at St Peters St James etc

Given that you have so many birth certs, it would appear that John James' birth was also never registered. Not uncommon for a birth out of wedlock and the then system of registration being dependent on the Registrar. There is a 'general advice' that even if there was a birth cert, without a father's name it really is the end of the line as far as an ancestral search is concerned.

When he married, he probably entered what he had been told into the Father and Profession columns on the marriage cert. It could also be a possibility that he thought his mother was married when he was born. That would explain the same surname of mother and father.

DS

Hi Jane,

I am curious if you have found more information on Sarah Mealey. I am also researching the Mealey line and have a Sarah Mealey born about 1898 to John Mealey and Elizabeth Elleray, I understand that this Sarah is born too late but the pattern of naming children after siblings perhaps may make a connection?

Hope to hear from you,
Renee

Hi Renee

Sorry but I got no further with Sarah Mealey other than to know that she married James Filson in 1875 and she died in 1904
I think she had a sister called Elizabeth one Louisa and one Catherine but I have been unable to trace any if them any further.
They may have spelt their name Melia
If you have any more information on your Mealey ancestors I can see if there are any lateral links.
Jane

Hi Renee, perhaps John Mealey snr is the clue to this family connection?
1911 he is 57 cab driver, wife Elizabeth 58, married 37yrs
9 children 7 living 2 died, 28 Esmond St
Mary 22, SARAH 13, all born Lpool
There is a niece Mary Lilian Brizzel?? aged 1yr.