Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi

I am looking for information about my Grandfather

What we know

Born 29.01.03 in Southampton
Married 1931 in Liverpool to Mary Alice Clarkson
Died in 1970 in Liverpool
Brother Samuel Atwill

No sign of him on 1911 cencus,we think he may have been in an orphanage but not sure

Hi and welcome to the forum.

If you are trying to find out about Joseph's life before and after his marriage you will need to trace his employment record or military service. If you want to know about his roots, then this forum is a place to pose questions despite it being likely his roots are in the south of England. What was his employment prior to retirement according to his death certificate?

Since you have Joseph's exact date and place of birth I assume you have his birth certificate? Can you post the names of his parents including his mother's maiden name? His younger brother Stephen is not missing from the census you have been unable to find Joseph in. Samuel is staying with an married aunt, Lucy Bailey, at 66 Priory Road, Gosport, Hampshire.

We need to find Joseph's parents, if possible, or at least what happened to them. You mentioned that Joseph may have been in an orphanage. Do you have any indication that he was? He would still have been enumerated in the census anyway.

Lucy Bailey was probably nee Thorne and married Stephen Thomas Bailey.
Registration district: South Stoneham, Hampshire
Year/qtr of registration: 1910 / Jan-Feb-Mar
Volume no: 2C; Page no: 125.

Are Thorne or Bailey names connected to Joseph's parents?
I found a death in the March qtr of 1911 of a Charlotte L Atwill aged 31. I believe she married Samuel John Atwill...
Marriages Sep 1900: Atwill, Samuel John & Thorn, Charlotte Louisa - Southampton - 2c - 44.
I believe Charlotte could have been Samuel and Joseph's mother.

DS

EDIT to add questions:
1) What was Joseph's occupation on his marriage cert?
2) What was his father's occupation on Joseph's birth cert? I suspect Royal Navy.
In the 1901 he is an Able Seaman in RN, at home with Charlotte.
RG13 - Piece:1056 - Folio: 166 - Page:18
Address: 31 Albert Street, Ransoms Terrace, Southampton St Mary, Southampton, Hampshire.

You would need the cert to confirm this is Joseph's father, but it could be the reason he appears in Liverpool later in his life.
Samuel J Atwill married Sarah L Perkins
Registration district: Toxteth Park, Lancashire
Year/qtr of registration: 1918 / Jan-Feb-Mar
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 251.

DS

Convenient marriage on Ancestry, it might help.

St Matthew's Church, Toxteth Park
6th January, 1918
Samuel John Atwill 39 Widower Leading Seaman R.N.R. 259 Grafton Street
Father John Atwill Deceased, Occupation Coal Porter
Sarah Lilian Perkins 38 Spinster 259 Grafton Street
Father Edwin Perkins Railway Checker
Both appeared to have signed their names
Witnesses Peter Hayes and Margaret Perkins

Hi thanks for getting back to us

Joseph Henry Atwill known as Joe, born 1903 Southampton
Samuel Stephen Atwill born 1907
James Atwill we dont have more information on James,he was bought out of the army, and married a lady called Margaret, who was a lot older than him

Father was a sea captain we think based in Plymouth

Mother we do not know

Sam also went to sea, and jumped ship in Canada, where he spent the rest of his life, married to Gladys, they had three daughters Lorain, Yvonne, Gloria.

We can find Joe in the Births but after that we cant find any trace, we think he was an orphan,

Looks like the right marriage MaryA. Same name and in the RN Reserve.

It would appear that until he signed up with the RN he was known as John, his other forename. In both the 1881 and 1891 Samuel can't be found. But there's a John, bn Southampton 1879, with a father John. There's only one male Atwill born in Hampshire between 1878 and 1880 and that's Samuel John. Has to be the same child.

1881 = RG11 - Piece:1210 - Folio: 71 - Page:10
Address: 8 Bridge Road, Southampton St Mary, Hampshire.
1891 = RG12 - Piece:919 - Folio: 40 - Page:28
Address: 11 Ransoms Terrace, Southampton, Hampshire.

DS

Hi,
Re:

James Atwill we dont have more information on James, he was bought out of the army, and married a lady called Margaret, who was a lot older than him

Sorry! Who is James? He hasn't been mentioned before. If you mean Joseph, when and where was he bought out of the Army? And you posted that he married Mary Alice Clarkson. Is that correct?

And do we understand that the Samuel who jumped ship was the son born in 1907?

DS

Well the only thing that is going to confirm anything is the certificates. You have the exact birth date so you will be able to order the birth certificate online at www.gro.gov.uk this will give his mother's maiden name and you/we may be able to take the research from there.

james atwill was the younger brother of joe and sam

it was sam who jumped ship in canada he was born in 1907

it was Joseph who married mary alice in 1930

we are going to order Josephs birth certificate and will let you know his parents

we appreciate your help as we have just started looking

will let you know as soon as we get more information

thanks irene

Hi,
When and where was the "younger brother James" born?
There are only 2 James Atwill births between 1900, when the person I think was the father of Joseph and Samuel married, and 1925.

Births Jun 1910: ATWILL, James William - Rochford [Essex] - 4a - 720
and
Births Dec 1925: Atwill, James A R - maiden name Stone - Bournemouth - 2b - 941.

The first child died the same year:
Deaths Jun 1910: Atwill, James William - age = 0 - Rochford - 4a - 278.

The parents of the second child appear to be:
Marriages Jun 1922: ATWILL, Arthur S B and STONE, Rhoda - Christchurch - 2b - 1631.
And this Atwill groom was born in 1899...
ATWILL, Arthur Stanley B - Poole, Dorset - 1899.

We definitely need some certs to confirm or otherwise what we have found so far.

DS

We had a lady into the Birkdale Library help desk enquiring about this family. I knew I'd seen it somewhere but thought it was on Roots Chat!

Basically we gave the same advice but suggested she needs to print off the information from the forum as well. Also that certificates are needed.

There are records for Samuel John on the seamen's records on Find my Past.