Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi all
new to the forum but learning a lot ! I have seen quite a few posts on the new contact for records from the Fazakerley cottage homes but I know my grandfather and his sister grew up in Olive Mount cottage home. Does it all fall under one records office now, does anyone know? For all of my life I always thought my grandfather was an orphan but from starting to dig and from getting a little info in pieces when I push my mum, it turns out that maybe my great grandparents ended up in the workhouse and their 2 children ended up in Olive Mount. John George Porter and Elizabeth Jean Porter were the children of John Alfred Porter (born 1874 Edge Hill, Lpool) and Elizabeth/Lizzie Edge (born 1878 Stokesay Shropshire). I can track them in the 1911 Census living 17 Kensington St, in the parish of West Derby, living with the Aspinalls (head of household Richard Aspinall is married to Lizzie's sister Agnes I think). John George Porter is shown as being almost 1 and Elizabeth was not yet born.

Thanks for any guidance you can give

Cathy Gilber (nee Cannell)

Best

Hi and welcome to the forum.

If any records exist they will be held at the Liverpool Record Office, however, depending on the date you are interested in they may come under the 100 year closure.

If you are making a visit to the RO, do check with them about availability and whether they are in microfilm form and so held at William Brown Street, or in document form at the Sandhills Satellite, which will be closing soon in preparation for the removal back to the library.

Give them a call before you go to make sure. http://liverpool.gov.uk/libraries-and-a ... y-history/

Hello Cathy,
Can you confirm this please, giving the GRO registration reference for the birth?

Elizabeth/Lizzie Edge (born 1878 Stokesay Shropshire

The only census she is in when married gives her origin as Cheshire and her YoB works out as 1882. I assume you have both her marriage and birth certs with her father's name and occupation [George, carpenter]? And it tallies with the 1881 census at:
RG11 - Piece: 2618 - Folio: 55 - Page: 22. Address: 2 Corvedale View, Stokesay, Shropshire.

Trying to work out when and why the children came to be taken into care.... Did the parents die? If they did we need accurate dates of birth or at least the year confirmed by a birth cert and not taken from a census in order to find the deaths.

While family lore says the parents were 'taken into the workhouse', it would be the norm for working class people to be admitted to the workhouse infirmary/hospital for treatment and they could die there of course. The death cert would only give an 'alias' address such as 144A Brownlow Hill, which was also the address for the workhouse as well as the infirmary.

I think this is her, but I do not have the certificate.
Lizzie Edge
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1878
Registration district: Ludlow
Inferred County: Shropshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 611

Luckily, the marriage banns are there and I was able to see her father George Edge on the banns.
Lizzie Edge
Birth Year: abt 1878
Age: 29
Marriage Date: 20 Oct 1907
Parish: Toxteth St Michael
Spouse's Name: John Alfred Porter
Father's Name: George Edge
Spouse Father's Name: John Porter

I didn't spot the inaccuracy of the age of Lizzie on the 1911 census till you pointed it out but I think it is a mistake. If you see they are living with her sister's husband (and I can find the marriage banns for Agnes and Richard also with George Edge father) so I am certain that is her. I suspect the head of household (Richard) filled it out incorrectly. John Alfred's age is correct.

We always thought that both Lizzie and John Alfred were dead but as I have been doing my research, I found what I think is John Alfred's death certificate in 1949, which means they were alive all the time. I have sent for a copy but living in the states, probably another 10 days before it arrives. My mum is here visiting me right now so she may be coming home with a list of to-dos. My mum tells me that her dad never much talked about his parents and she believed they were dead. My aunt Jean (her father's sister) ended up spending her whole life with her friend she met in Olive Mount - 2 friends who grew old together and sometimes she would mention twins who died. I see on the 1911 census that there had been 3 children born to Lizzie and John and 2 deceased, so maybe that was the twins. My mum also remembers going on holiday with 'The Edges' so maybe if I can trace through some of the living Edges, we might find out why Lizzie and John gave up their children

I am totally hooked with this geneolgy stuff now !!
Thanks for the feedback !

Hello Cathy,
Just a quick note re:

I found what I think is John Alfred's death certificate in 1949, which means they were alive all the time. I have sent for a copy but living in the states, probably another 10 days before it arrives.

As you live in the US I hope you ordered that cert direct from the GRO
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certi ... efault.asp and not from a genealogy 'subscription' site or similar. The GRO charge £9.25 per cert including postage, about $14.50. That's much less than half of the cost some sites charge.

Regarding the YoBs on the censuses, these are calculated by the transcriber's software from the age entered on the household form. Mistakes in ages often happened, sometimes deliberately and probably Cheshire was another mistake.

While browsing for either of the parents I came across this possible marriage. If Elizabeth didn't die perhaps she was deserted.
John A Porter married Grace Broughton
Registration district: Liverpool
Year/qtr of registration: 1926 / Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 7

Thanks DS - very interesting. I did order from GRO (got that tip from here !). It will be interesting to see when and where he died. Thanks so much !!

Morning folks
Could the twins be Edith Mary & John born and died march qtr 1908 W Dby rego.

John A's death was rego'd in Lpool North.
Could this be Elizabeth Porter?
aged 57yrs bn 1879c Lpool North 1st qtr 1936

Quick Update.

I received the death certificate today for John Alfred (Porter) - took about 16 days to reach me !!
He died at 241 Westminster Rd, Kirkdale and was listed as General Laborer of No Fixed Abode. Seems to have died of Senile somethingitis and the death was registered by Occupier of 241 Westminster Rd, Kirkdale. After a couple of hours of searching, (and a couple of G&Ts) I think I can say that this was Liverpool Kirkdale Homes for the Elderly and Infirm (which I believe was formerly the Kirkdale Industrial School). Intersting link given that I started this search with the feeling that he (John Alfred) and his wife had placed their two children in the Cottage homes. I did read another post where the person in the Kirkdale home was listed as no fixed abode but when the person researching received the admittance records, it showed that the person in the hospital, did indeed have an alternate place to live and was discharged and re-admitted several times. I am hoping if I can get the records, this might lead me to the second marriage that Dickiesam noted in a prior post.

I spoke some more to my mum and she thought that Olive Mount may have been the second home her father and my great aunt were in. She thought they were in Barnardos, so I coughed up my $$ and got Barnardos to search. No joy. So now I need to try and get the search done for Kirkdale and Oliver Mount. May be easier to get John Alfred's records as he was an adult.

Tina - by the way, those could well be the twins. More research and more $$ and time will tell but I appreciate the clues very much.

I will update when I have any further news.

Thanks to all so far !!

Great Board by the way and I just received my first newsletter as well ! Very intersting.

Welcome to the Society! I'm sure you will enjoy reading the Journals, they will bring home a bit closer.

According to Gore's 1911 Liverpool Directory, Numbers 241 to 295 Westminster Road was the Kirkdale Homes, with a Superintendent, clerk and engineer.

You will be able to read a little about general life http://www.workhouses.org.uk/ and specifically about the Kirkdale Homes with pictures http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Liverpool/

Hello Cathy,
Thanks for the update and the news of some progress made.

Tina - received the death cert for Edith Mary Porter (one of the possible twins - figured one would do the trick rather than 2 * the cost) and she/they are not my Porters. She was born to father Henry Porter. Cause of death is Debilitry twin birth (best I could do given the curly writing) plus the the word 'premature' so I assume those little guys were born early and there were not the facilities like today to get them through (for which I am eternally grateful after giving birth to my twins 9 weeks early in 2007). Of course, living in the US, we had the best of the best and today, at 5 years old, you would never know my 2 were preemies, except perhaps for the skinnyness of my little boy who at 5, has to have adjustable waist pants or else !!!

Was really hoping for a twin story to pass down to my two. Keeping searching.

Tina - Almost forget to say as well, that what you said was true:

John A's death was rego'd in Lpool North.
Could this be Elizabeth Porter?
aged 57yrs bn 1879c Lpool North 1st qtr 1936

I have both the death certificates and she is my Eliz Porter. She is noted as wife of John Alfred Porter, dock laborer and the addres of 241 Westminster road is given (this is all under the occupation section - find this hilarious that her occupation is given as 'wife of' with his address - how things have changed !!). She died of colon cancer which is sad.

But even sadder that she and John Alfred were alive and well when my mum (their granddaughter) was born in 1935 and grew up thinking their grandparents were dead. I now have the forms to fill out for the olive mount homes and hopefully will get to the bottom of that mystery in the next few months.

Hi Cathy, Some members of my family were admitted to Olive Mount in 1941. At that time they were only babies. When they were a little older they were transfered to Fazakerley Cottage Homes, where they stayed until they were 16 years old. They then went into Hostel accomodation under the supervision of Social Services.
Social Service records are available but only to the individual concerned or a very close relative (on prove of authenticity) by applying to
The Records Manager / Access Team Manager, Strategy and Support
Liverpool City Council - Children Families and Adults
Victoria House,
Derby Road
Liverpool
L20 1AB
Best wishes in your search Jim S