Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

my father was born in Liverpool.in 1889,Name of John Francis Borgia Dunford.Married my Mother Lavinia Sampson.in 1918 .in Liverpool.
His Father was John Francis Dunford born 1861 Married Mary Mcmonagle, Born 1860 .Had a Large Family.Was owner of a Shop 29 Seaforth Road, Seaforth .Liverpool .around 1900.
His Father Name was John Dunford born 1813 Wife Name Ann Campbell born 1819
Cannot go back any further, But i would like to.Please does any one in your Forum .Have any Mixing Parents,Or can they Help me find out more Information on my Liverpool Family.thank you.

Just found out a little more about my father which i could not believe.
from his royal navel records .it seems he joined up as a boy in 1907,it gives all the ships he was on .and for some reason he was taught several languages.and electronics radio,this we must keep in mind as i go on.he was discharge from hospital at the Royal Navel Hospital Gillingham kent for Wounds he had required in the War.in 1918.
bit for some reason i cant find out is in 1914,the records say he was at HMS Pembroke Chatham he was in the Liverpool city police,his police number was H279. His family had his red book.which he had to carry,given to him from the police, Liverpool city police,with photo's of him wearing his policeman's uniform.with twenty other Liverpool policemen.now he was not in the Liverpool city police for very long .all i found out is that," this was 1914,start of the first world war ,every service was in trouble needed the right people to help.maybe his different languages helped them ?
now i find out after his discharge from the royal navy he got married in Liverpool to my mother lavinia. Sampson.
then in 1921 he joined the united kingdom ,merchant navy,until 1941 .with all those German submarines blowing up the merchant ships.and when he came out of the merchant navy,he lived in 44 king street Gillingham Kent,where the local police would use him as there Translator as he could speak so many Languages .he work as a electrition, but why is it all hush ,hush from the Liverpool city police, he died in 1975 .he showed us pictures of himself in the royal navy where he was in there minstrel shows.he could play most instruments,i thought i should tell you what i have found out.

Welcome to the Forum

What evidence for your family have you already obtained.

For instance do you have birth and marriage certificates for John Francis Dunford. If yes please can you post the details.

Also do you have census entries for the families? Again if yes please can you post the details.

Hi and welcome,
RE:

My father was born in Liverpool in 1889.

Could you confirm that this statement is correct and you don't mean grandfather?

SOME MORE CENSUS INFORMATION WHCH MIGHT HELP.1871 CENSUS JOHN DUNFORD AGE 13 BITH YEAR ABT 1858 JOHN DUNFORD 59 ANN DUNFORD 52 HENRY DUNFORD 22,ANNA DUNFORD 16.JOHN DUNFORD 13.MARTHA DUNFORD 11

CENSUS 1881
NAME JOHN DUNFORD AGE 23 ESTIMATE BIRTH YEAR 1858 HEAD SPOUSE NAME MARY A.WHERE BORN LIVERPOOL LANCASHIRE CIVIL PARISH EVER TON COUNTY /ISLAND,STREET ADDRESS 3 STEERS ST ST CONDITION AS TO MARRIAGE MARRIED OCCUPATION LABORER. REG DISTRICT WEST DERBY SUB DISTRICT EVER TON

MY FATHERS BIRTH CERTIFICATE,
JOHN FRANCIS BORGIA DUNFORD YEAR OF REGISTRATION 1889.QUARTER OF REG OCT 10 DISTRIC WEST DERBY COUNTY .LANCASHIRE VOLUME 8B.PAGE 311

CENSUS 1911.( JOHN FRANCIS BORGIA DUNFORD WAS THEN IN THE ROYAL NAVY.)JOHN FRANCIS B.DUNFORD WAS IN THE ROYAL NAVY ABL SEAMAN MILITARY BRANCH SHIP PELORUS TROOPING SERVICE IN COLOMBO CEYLON.RG14.PIECE 34972 ED 15.

John Dunford married Mary Ann McMonagle
June Quarter 1878
West Derby registration district
Volume 8b
Page 721

This is the GRO reference which would enable you to purchase a copy of their marriage certificate.

How do you know that John Dunford born 1860ish has a mother called Ann Campbell?

Hi Hilary
There's a tree in Anx which has the mother as Anne Campbell.
Another has her as Anne Hannah (which is on John's baptism 1858 in familysearch)
And another tree has John senior's wife as Martha.

With that many suggested mother's names I think perhaps the purchase of some certificates is necessary to get definite proof!

Education Officer wrote:John Dunford married Mary Ann McMonagle
June Quarter 1878
West Derby registration district
Volume 8b
Page 721

This is the GRO reference which would enable you to purchase a copy of their marriage certificate.

How do you know that John Dunford born 1860ish has a mother called Ann Campbell?

i have had this back from find my family but it just shows the Father and Mother of John Dunford BORN 1860 and mary mcmonagle BORN 1860.DIED 1939. as John Dunford born 1813.Wife Name Ann Campbell, Born 1819.I cant find out there Father or Mother.Or any History,YOU ARE CLEVER TO FIND OUT WHAT YOU HAVE,THANK YOU.WE ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK AT LAST.THANK YOU AGAIN

Please could you clarify what documentation this is

i have had this back from find my family but it just shows the Father and Mother of John Dunford BORN 1860 and mary mcmonagle BORN 1860.DIED 1939. as John Dunford born 1813.Wife Name Ann Campbell, Born 1819.I cant find out there Father or Mother.

Do you have any birth marriage and death certificates for John who marries Mary? If yes please post the full details.

dickiesam wrote:Hi and welcome,
RE:

My father was born in Liverpool in 1889.

Could you confirm that this statement is correct and you don't mean grandfather?

yes he was my Father i am 75 years old.Born 1937.Name in full which might help my Family Tree .Robert Peter Dunford Born 1937,in Gillingham. Kent.England Mother Lavinia Sampson .Dunford Born 1896 in Milton Sittingbourne Kent.My Father and Mother were Married in West Derby in 1918.My Father was in the Navy from 1907 to 1923,1911 Census Shows he was on the Ship Pelorus.As a Able Seaman.Then in 1912 on the Ship Bulwark.HIS FATHER JOHN FRANCIS .WAS MARRIED TO MARY ANN MCMONAGLE.IN THE 1911 CENSUS IT SHOWS SHE OWNED A SHOP IN SEAFORTH,64 SEAFORTH ROAD SEAFORTH LIVERPOOL.IF THIS MIGHT HELP ALSO HE HAD A PICTURE OF HIS GRAND FATHER AND GRAND MOTHER JOHN DUNFORD BORN 1812.HIS MOTHER ANN CAMPBELL BORN 1819,TAKEN BY THE OLD FASHION CAMERA. IN 1880?


just had the baptism of John Dunford born 23 Oct 1812.Baptised 24 Oct 1812 in St Marys Liverpool
Baptism of his Brother Thomas Dunford born 17 Feb 1815 Baptised 19 Feb 1815 in St Mary's Liverpool
Baptism of another Brother William Dunford born 17 Feb 1818 Baptised 22 Feb 1818 in St Mary's Liverpool
Baptism of another Brother James Dunford born 6 Nov 1823.Baptised 23 Nov 1823 in St Mary's Liverpool
Baptism of a Sister Helen Dunford born 30 Dec 1824 ,Baptism 23 Jan 1825 in St Mary's Liverpool,
on all the Baptism Records was there Father and Mother Names John Dunford and Martha Dunford

John Dunford and Ann Campbell /Dunford had Four Children

Henry Dunford born 1849
Anna Dunford born 1855
John Dunford born 1858
Martha Dunford born 1860, Martha Dunford Married Charles Corkhill 26 Oct 1879 at St Nicholas .Liverpool

Thomas Dunford Married Sarah Williams
William Dunford Married Ellen Carrol 03 Nov 1839 at St Peters ,Liverpool
Hoping this will help.

Thanks for the explanation Bob. It was the fact that your 3 siblings were born between 1918 and 1922 that threw me.

Could you please respond to Hilary's question
"Do you have any birth marriage and death certificates for John who marries Mary? If yes please post the full details." as this evidence would be needed before further research could be confirmed.

In 1911 Gores/Kellys Directory
John Dunford draper at 64 Seaforth Rd cnr Balfe St.
This was probably recorded in 1910.
Bobs post 12th re 1871 census, I've found Martha's baptism in 1860 De La Salle.
Can't find them in 1861.
Was hoping to find John in 1841 with his father.

Okay, got them in 1851 courts Maguire St (Howard St)
John 37 a broom maker, Ann 30, Ellen 5 & Henry 2.
John's brother is with them Thomas 33 carter his wife Sarah & 2 kiddies.
I ignored this at first as John's wife listed as Sarah on the cover sheet.
Will send, yet another error, into Anx!

Added could this be Thomas? John's brother
Baptism St Mary's 19 Feb 1815 father Thomas mother Martha

MaryA wrote:Could you please respond to Hilary's question
"Do you have any birth marriage and death certificates for John who marries Mary? If yes please post the full details." as this evidence would be needed before further research could be confirmed.

i will show you what i have found out-Mary Ann Mcmonagle was born 29 oct,1860 in Liverpool and dies 1939 she married John Dunford on 04 May in Walton on the Hill ,West Derby Lancashire.Son of John Dunford and Ann Campbell
Children of Mary Ann Mcmonagle are
Eva Dunford Born Everton Liverpool
Cecelia Dunford Born Everton Liverpool
Nancy Dunford Born Everton Liverpool
Mary Agnes Dunford Born 17 June 1883 Everton Liverpool Died 28 April 1956 West Cheshire Chester
Phillip Dunford Born 1884 Everton Liverpool
Edith Ann Dunford Born 1888 Everton Liverpool
John Francis Borgia Dunford Born 1889 Everton Liverpool.
1871 Census all Born Liverpool John Snr was a Dock Porter.
Name John Dunford Age 13 Estimated Birth Year abt 1858-1860 Son Father Name John Mother Name Ann ,Male was Born Liverpool Lancashire, England ,Civil Parish Liverpool Ecclesiastical Parish St Stephen Town Liverpool County /Island :Lancashire County :Enfgland Reg Distric Liverpool Sub Distric Dale Street
John Dunford 59, Ann Dunford 52 .Henry Dunford 22 ,Anna Dunford 16,John Dunford 13.Martha Dunford 11.
Marrieges
Dunford John ,West Derby Reg No 8b721
To
Mcmonagle Mary Ann,West Derby Reg No 8b721

Mary Ann Dunford Nee Mcmonagle Born 1862 Died 1939.
John Dunford Born 1860 -Died 1930

Census of England and Wales 1911

John Francis Dunford. Head 50, Married 9 Children Born 1 Died 8 Lived.Forman Porter for Johnson Shipping Agents
Mary Ann Dunford 49 Married Shop Keeper and Owner.Town Accounts
Edith Burhison Daughter 25 Widow,Dressmaker
Ellen Dunford Daughter 23 Single School Teacher, Waterloo with Seaforth District Council,Bithpace Everton.Liverpool
Mary Anna Dunford 18 Single, Dressmaker.Own Account.
Two more at school cant read the Names
signed by mrs mary dunford of 64 seaforth road seaforth,census of england and wales 1891 Census
1891 John Snr was a Warehouseman all Born Everton
Fathers Name John Mothers Name Mary
Civil Parish Everton Ecclesiastical Parish St Chrysostom Town Liverpool County/Island:Lancashire County ,England Reg Distric West Derby Sub District South Everton,
John Dunford 32,Mary Dunford 30.Phillip Dunford 2.Mary Agnes Dunford 2.Edith Ann Dunford 5.Ellen Dunford 3.John f.b.Dunford 1,

1881 Census
Name John Dunford Age 23 Estimated Birth Year abt 1858-60 Head Spouse Name Mary Ann
Civil Parish Everton County /Island Lancashire Country England
Street Address 3 Steers .St Condition as to Marriage. Married /Occupation Labourer Reg Distric West Derby Sub Distric Everton
Hoping this will help a Little,I believe my Daughter may have more Waiting on Her.

Merely the details from the birth certificate of one of the children, as this will confirm his mother's maiden name, occupation and address of whoever registered the birth and the marriage certificate please otherwise we don't have any father's names, occupations, addresses or witnesses.

Everything else is assumption from censuses.

MaryA wrote:Merely the details from the birth certificate of one of the children, as this will confirm his mother's maiden name, occupation and address of whoever registered the birth and the marriage certificate please otherwise we don't have any father's names, occupations, addresses or witnesses.

Everything else is assumption from censuses.

MY FATHERS BIRTH RECORD FROM WWW.ANCESTRY .CO.UK
NAME JOHN FRANCIS B.DUNFORD.YEAR OF REGISTRATION 1889.QUARTER OF REGISTRATION:OCT-NOV-DEC.
DISTRC WEST DERBY COUNTY:LANCASHIRE .VOLUME 8B PAGE 311

LITTLE MORE INFORMATION I HAVE FOUND.
MARY ANN MCMONAGLE (DAUGHTER OF PHILLIP MCMONAGLE AND MARY MURPHY)WAS BORN 29 OCT 1860 IN LIVERPOOL AND DIED 1939 .SHE MARRIED JOHN DUNFORD ONTHE 04 MAY 1878.IN WALTON ON THE HILL'SON OF JOHN DUNFORD AND ANN CAMPBELL.
CHIDREN OF MARY ANN MCMONAGLE AND JOHN DUNFORD ARE:
EVA DUNFORD BORN EVERTON .LIVERPOOL
CECELIA DUNFORD BORN EVERTON LIVERPOOL
NANCY DUNFORD BORN EVERTON .LIVERPOOL.
MARY AGNES DUNFORD.BORN 17 JUNE 1883 ,EVERTON .LIVERPOOL .DIED 28 APRIL 1956 .WEST CHESHIRE ,CHESTER
PHILLIP DUNFORD BORN 1884 ,EVERTON LIVERPOOL.
EDITH DUNFORD BORN 1887 .EVERTON .LIVERPOOL.
ELLEN DUNFORDB BORN 1888.EVERTON .LIVERPOOL
JOHN FRANCIS .B.DUNFORD BORN 1889,EVERTON LIVERPOOL.
IS THIS ANY HELP,

JOHN FRANCIS .B.DUNFORD,MARRIED LAVINIA SAMPSON IN 1918.IN WEST DERBY

MaryA wrote:Could you please respond to Hilary's question
"Do you have any birth marriage and death certificates for John who marries Mary? If yes please post the full details." as this evidence would be needed before further research could be confirmed.

I HAVE A DATE OF MARRIAGE FROM" FIND MY PAST"IF THAT IS ANY GOOD.IT READS JIHN .FRANCIS DUNFORD MARIIED MARY ANN MCMONAGLE ENGLAND,LANCASHIRE DERBY IN 1878

ALSO I HAVE THIS WHICH MIGHT HELP.
1851 CENSUS.
JOHN DUNFORD AGE 37
ANN CAMPBELL DUNFORD 30
EILLEN DUNFORD 5
HENRY DUNFORD 2
JOHNS BROTHER AND FAMILY STAYING WITH THEM
THOMAS DUNFORD 33
SARAH DUNFORD 30
ALBERT DUNFORD 4
JAMES DUNFORD 6

1871 CENSUS
JOHN AND YOUNG MARY BORN IN LIVERPOOL
MARY ANN.MCMONAGLE 10

PHILLIP MCMONAGLE 49 BORN DONEGAL IRELAND
MARY MCMONAGLE 40 BORN DONEGAL IRELAND
JOHN MCMONAGLE 12 BORN LIVERPOOL
MARY ANN MCMONAGLE 10.BORN LIVERPOOL

1881 CENSUS FROM KIRKDALE LANCASHIRE 50 EVELYN STREET,
PHILLIP MCMONAGLE 60 BORN DONEGAL IRELAND
MARY MCMONAGLE 57 BORN DONEGAL .IRELAND

JOHN FRANCIS DUNFORD,BORN 1860
WIFE MARY MCMONAGLE BORN 1880 DIED 1939 HAD 9 CHILDREN
IT IS BELIEVED THAT MARY'S FATHER OWNED A PIE SHOP.WHERE?
JOHN AFTER HE WAS MARRIED WOULD HELP OUT IN THE SHOP.
THEY MARRIED IN WALTON ON THE HILL .IN 1878
JOHN DUNFORD SON OF JOHN DUNFORD AND ANN CAMPBELL .DUNFORD,
JOHN DUNFORD AND MARY ANN MCMONAGLE DUNFORD OWNED A SHOP IN 64 SEAFORTH ROAD SEAFORTH .LANCASHIRE.

Have you checked your private messages - top left of the page you will see near Logout, there should be a link to tell you that you have a new message.

Tina wrote:Hi Hilary
There's a tree in Anx which has the mother as Anne Campbell.
Another has her as Anne Hannah (which is on John's baptism 1858 in familysearch)
And another tree has John senior's wife as Martha.

is it possible for me to see johns baptism 1958 in family search.
just speaking on the phone to Evelyn . Daughter of on of Johns, Daughter.she said that Mary Ann Mcmonagle ,dunford her father and mother ,phillip mcmonagle and his wife mary mcmonagle who were born in donegal ireland,had a shop i believe in kirkdale liverpool selling meat and fruit pies.a pie shop.
and mary ann mcmonagle wife of john francis dunford.bought a cottage in caenarfon .wales..and went to live there taking with her one of her daughters eva, eva went to school for two years in caenarfon wales.john francis dunford and his son would go down there weekends to help out. until mary mcmonagle changed her mind and came back to live in the shop 64 seaforth road seaforth,.they then bought 5 houses in ash grove.liverpool.for there daughters and husbands,to give then security,is this helpful.a little more .it seems when mary ann mcmonagle dunford went to wales .and bought a cottage there she lived in caenarfon wales.she took with her one of her daughters eva dunford who went to school in caenarfon.wales .now eva dunford, was born in 1904.( starting school at 5 years old to 14 years old ,so she would have started school in 1909.and finished school in 1923..so if they bought the shop in 1910.they must have been living in caenarfon wales.between 1910 and 1923.(remember they only lived in caenarfon for around one year)before coming back to live in 64 seaforth street,seaforth .where she dies in 1939.so when she came back home to seaforth between 1910 and 1923.she must have waited a few years before buying the houses in ash grove in 1935,just a thought.thought i should pass it on.