Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I also am looking for a Liverpool Policeman whom I cannot trace any further than Grove's Directory for 1860 as James Wilson, Police Officer of 4 Olive Street, Oxford St, Liverpool.

I have tried all the avenues given above and as I do not live near Liverpool the Watch Committee Notes are not readily accessible to me.

At least I know that I have tried everything!

Hi and welcome to the forum Redwing, sorry that there aren't more records available for the Police Force. You have the relevant censuses/marriages/births etc? is there anything else we can help you with?

Thank you Mary but apart from the birth certificate of James' daughter Ann following her birth in 1854 in 33 Wright Street, Toxteth and the Grove's entry, and an 1851 Census record there is nothing that I can find that can accurately locate the family.

James was born in 1823 in Dromore Parish, County Down and the family does not seem to have come over to England until about 1846/7 and unfortunately, Wilson is such a common name that I am stumped.

If anyone else has any suggestions I should be very glad to have them!

Each enquiry deserves it's own post so I've separated this from the others. I hope somebody might come up with some suggestions to help.

Perhaps you would give us the details from the birth record and also the 1851 census, including the reference, so that we know we have the correct family to search for.

Also do you know for certain that they remained in Liverpool? ie who is your direct ancestor and which censuses are they in?

but apart from the birth certificate of James' daughter Ann following her birth in 1854 in 33 Wright Street, Toxteth and the Grove's entry, and an 1851 Census record there is nothing that I can find that can accurately locate the family.

Hi Redwing,
What was Ann's mother's forename and maiden name on her birth certificate? And can you post the 1851 census reference where you had found him previously? It will be in the format HO107 - Piece: ??? - Folio: ??? - Page: ???

Could they have moved to Yorkshire for work?

Magistrates in Petty Sessions .
The Huddersfield Chronicle and West Yorkshire Advertiser (West Yorkshire, England), Saturday, July 06, 1861; pg. 6; Issue 590.

West Riding Court House, Princess Street, Saturday June 29th
Rejoicings and Revelry - The laying of the foundation stone of the Scammonden Co-operative Society's Mill on Saturday week, appears to have been the occasion of such indulgence amongst the visitors and several of them were this morning brought up by the Police and fined for drunkenness. John Hindle was also charged with unlawfully assaulting and beating James Wilson, a Police Officer, in the execution of his duty ......"

Can you confirm that this is the Wilson family in 1851?

WILSON, James - Head - 29 - Police Officer - Ireland.
WILSON, Catherine - Wife - 23 - Ireland.
WILSON, James - Son - 6 - Scholar - Ireland.
WILSON, Elizabeth - Dtr - 1 - Liverpool, Lancashire.
Address: 1 Court, 3 House, Wright Street, Toxteth Park, Liverpool.
RG number: HO107 - Piece: 2186 - Folio: 344 - Page: 14

The absence of any of the above and dtr Ann bn 1854 from the 1861 census leads me to believe they may have returned to Ireland.

If you are a descendent of any of the above children can you tell us who they are and when and where they reappear in the UK?

Hi there Redwing

Although at present I can not offer any solution to your search I thought you maybe interested in 'setting the scene' so to speak about the force around the time your ancestor was employed.

When I was searching for Joseph James Redhead, a Police Officer in Liverpool in 1851, Peter Jones, Editor of the society journal kindly sent me the following.

9.2.1836 Liverpool City Police formed (6 years after Metropolitan Police in London - 1829)
There were 390 men
Liverpool had a population of 240,000

A 1936 Recruitment Advert
18/- per week plus uniform

1. Must be between 22-35 years of age
2. Not to be under 5'7" in height
3. To be able to read and write with facility
4. To be well recommended for good temper, sobriety, honesty, activity, and intelligence by his last and preceding employer
5. To be in good health and of a good constitution
6. To be prepared to engage to serve as Constables for at least 12 months.
7. To be able to deposit £3 or to find sufficient security for the sum, as a guarantee for his clothes, in the event of his quitting the Police Force without giving them up
8. Not to keep a Public House, or deal in any Excisable Articles.

I hope this helps in building a picture of the size, age, and type of character your ancestor must have had.

Very thoughtful Leigh, thanks for passing that on.

Thank you all so much - I am over-whelmed by your replies and the time taken over them.

The 1851 Census information is Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2186; Folio: 344; Page: 14; GSU roll: 87193. and yes, that is the right family Dickiesam.

James was my great great grandfather and Ann therefore my great grandmother and her mother's name was Catherine Speer, also born in Ireland but I have been unable to find any further information on her.

It is entirely possible that they family moved to Yorkshire but I still cannot find records which have all the family and Ann Wilson is an unrewarding name to search as there seem to be so many possibles!

It would not be unfeasible that they returned to Ireland for a while, my lot went home when somebody died and returned some years later.

Who did Ann marry and where? what later censuses do you have for her?

Hi Redwing

You might like to try the following website

http://liverpoolcitypolice.co.uk

They have a forum you can join and a section for people seeking family history information.

They also have a very interesting awards section, Liverpool Shipwreck & Humane Society Rewards.
There are numerous named policemen and details of their acts of bravery. This is also fascinating just for those of us interested in the social history and happenings in Liverpool in the late 19th century.

Thank you Leigh - I have looked at that site and it does not go back far enough - I need information from 1850 on.

MaryA - Ann married John Johnson (another difficult name!) on 25 December 1874 in St Matthew's Church, Scotland Road and they are in the 1881 Census Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3660; Folio: 84; Page: 38; GSU roll: 1341877; and 1891 Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2951; Folio: 42; Page: 30; GSU roll: 6098061 but after that I am a bit lost.

Ann's father is given as a policeman on her marriage certificate but as I well know that does not mean he was alive at that time.

Wilson and Johnson are not the easiest names to research but I am sure I have the correct Johnsons.

I'm sorry I don't find access to that marriage online, could you please give the full details, ie ages, both father's names, occupations, addresses and witnesses also.

and for the benefit of those wishing to help
1881 - 59 Elias Street, Everton - all born Liverpool
John Johnston Head M 25 Carter
Ann Wife M 25
Catherine daur Unm 4
RG11; Piece: 3660; Folio: 84; Page: 38

and 1891 2/10 Arkwright Street, North Everton - all except the father born Liverpool
John Johnson Head M 35 Carter Birkenhead, Cheshire
Annie Wife 34
Catherine daur 14
Sarah J daur 9 Scholar
John H son 7 "
Annie daur 5 "
Elizabeth " 3
Charlotte " 1
RG12; Piece: 2951; Folio: 42; Page: 30

Just posting this as I've come across it.

1901 RG13; Piece: 3457; Folio: 111
District Workhouse, Walton on the Hill
Charlotte Johnson 11
Esther Johnson 8
both born Liverpool

RG13; Piece: 3457; Folio: 111; Page: 46
District Workhouse, Walton on the Hill
Elizabeth Johnson 13
If I were you my next investigation would be to check the Admittance Records to the Workhouse to see who the parents of these three are.

Hi Redwing,

John and Annie Johnson's family may have become scattered by 1901 in the event of them possibly passing on.

For Consideration,

1901 census,

Joseph Maddox, bn 1877, head,
Catherine, bn 1877, wife,
Annie Johnson, bn 1886, sister in law,

Rg13, Piece3466, Folio58, Page11

Marriage,
Joseph Maddox, Catherine Johnson, 5/3/1900, Kirkdale, Lancs.

Fathers, John Johnson, Joseph Maddox, (Family search)

1901 census,

Charlotte Johnson, bn 1890
Walton on the Hill, District Workhouse.

Rg13, Piece3457, Folio111, Page46


Bert

Charlotte's Marriage ?

26th June 1910, Holy Trinity, Walton on the Hill, Liverpool.

Thomas Walls, Bachelor, 24, 21 Stanhope St, Father, Patrick Walls, (deceased), Labourer.

Charlotte Johnson, spinster, 21, 21 Stanhope St, Father, Jack Johnson, (deceased), Carter.



Esther,

18th March, 1916, St Chrysostom, Everton,

James Meredith, 24, Batchelor, Painter, 95 Hodson Place, Father, Thomas Henry Meredith, Ships Cook?

Esther Johnson,24, Spinster, 95 Hodson Place, Father, John Johnson, Carter.


Bert

In case it is of any help, Charlotte's marriage is online and the witnesses were John Rees Williams and Mary Catherine Askes and those for Esther are Henry and Edith Baxter.

I hoped they might have been related.

I've added Elizabeth onto the 1901 census, also found in the District Workhouse.

1901 Also more or less in the right part of the town is
5 Prospect Vale, West Derby
Margaret A Leeman (Butcher) and her son and daughter in law and grandson
Sarah Johnson Servant S 19 General Servant (Domestic) Liverpool, Lancashire.
RG13; Piece: 3499; Folio: 181; Page: 55.