Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi I have had a little trouble looking for a certain ancestor and have heard good things about the forum!!! So just wondering whether any fresh eyes maybe able help me.

I have a birthdate for him of the 14 February 1828 date taken from his Naval Records, he was born in Halsall, Lancs.

His marriage information is:
Certificate - 25 December 1849 Manchester Cathedral
Henry Wright B 22 Private in 30 Foot Bradshaw Street John Wright Labourer
Alice Leadbetter x S 21 18 Garden Street Thomas Leadbetter Waterman
Witnesses: John x and Catherine Cooper x

The earliest census I have found him on is the 1851 so no 1841 to tell me who his mother and any siblings are
1851 MF 25/51
Lauglas (?) Brooks, Burscough
Thomas Leadbetter M Head 60 Boatman Northwich
Elizabeth Leadbetter M Wife 49 Boatman's Wife Lathom
Alice Wright M dau 23 Boatman's Wife Burscough
Henry Leadbetter son 21 Boatman's son Burscough
Elizabeth Leadbetter dau 14 Scholar Burscough
Richard Leadbetter son 8 Scholar Lathom
Cecily Leadbetter dau 4 Scholar Burscough
Henry Wright M son in law 23 Boatman Halsall

I also have been unable to find any early army records for him.

His first 2 children were called Shadrach and Reuben which may indicate non-conformist, I have searched all the usual C of E baptisms around the Halsall, Scarisbrick, Southport, Ormskirk parishes.

I have Henry from 1851 onwards he ends up on HMS Warrior before "retiring" from the Navy back to Southport.

Thanks in advance
Kathryn

Hi Kathryn,
The marriage cert says Henry Wright's regiment on his marriage cert was the 30th Foot so you may already have this...
The 30th (Cambridgeshire) Regiment of Foot was an infantry regiment of the British Army, formed in 1702 and amalgamated into The East Lancashire Regiment in 1881.

There are several Henry Wrights in the Chelsea Pensioners lists on Findmypast. Do his Navy papers indicate when and where he joined the RN?

In the 1841 I could only find one Henry Wright with a father John... all born Lancashire.
WRIGHT, John - 39 [Farmer]
WRIGHT, Jane - 45
WRIGHT, Henry - 15
WRIGHT, William - 8.
WRIGHT, Alice - 6
RIMMER, Alice - 85 [Huckster]
Address: Moss Lane, Meols North, Lancashire.
HO107 - Piece: 514 - Book/Folio: 4/23 - Page: 4

The ages given in the 1841 census are often incorrect in that there was a requirement to round down to the nearest 5 years all ages above 15. So a 24 year old would be entered as 20 years old and a 19 year old as 15 years old etc. Not all enumerators apparently understood this 'rule', so some ages with the second digit not a 0 or a 5 may be correct!

Hi Kathryn, welcome to the forum at last!!

Thanks Mary

Sorry haven't replied sooner have been in Southport manning the group Help Desk @ Holy Trinity.

Dickiesam - My Dad had looked into a little of the history of the 30th Foot so I knew it was a Cambridgeshire regiment which I thought was a little unusual for a "Northern" man! By the time it had amalgamated in 1881 he was retired to Southport.

The navy records I have have his date of Volunteering for continous service of 22 July 1859 as a leading Stoker on HMS Clio, (he was on the Clio in 1861 census at anchor in Guaymaus Harbour, West coast of Mexico). But his list of ships have him on HMS Rodney entering on 20 April 1852. These seem to be his records for him "enlisting" on HMS Clio he had previous been on 3 other ships from 1852 to 1859. Would there be any further records for him enlisting on HMS Rodney - his first ship?

He got a Crimean War medal whilst on HMS Rodney between 30 April 1852 and 30 January 1856.

And the 1841 census yes that was the only one I found as well and I thought I had him, till I checked the 1851 and found:
Piece: 2196 Folio: 529 Page Number: 15
John Wright 48
Jane Wright 55
Henry Rimmer 28
William Wright 18
Alice Wright 16

Mary suggested today that it might be a visit to the National Archives to find what other Navy Records there maybe for Henry and to see if there are any others that may have further information on. Did even wonder whether he "made up" his Father's name!

Oh Well he'll have to stay a mystery for a little longer thank you for your help and thoughts
Kathryn

Henry Wright is another of those mystery men isn't he?
I am trying to fathom out how he changed from being a soldier in Dec 1849 to a civvy boatman in April 1851 to a sailor on HMS Rodney in April 1852. Stand to be corrected by one of our military folk, but he could probably only have enlisted in the Army no earlier than about 1843 when he would have been 14.

I have a note that in the mid-1800s soldiers enlisted either for life, or for a period of twenty-one years, which effectively was a lifelong enlistment. 'Limited Service' enlistments of only seven years (longer in the cavalry and artillery), had been introduced in 1806 to allow the Army to be rapidly expanded during the Napoleonic Wars, but these were abolished in 1829. Enlistments of ten or twelve years were introduced in 1847.

May help DS,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitmen ... itish_Army

From 1798 onwards, structural, training and logistical reforms implemented or authorised by the Duke of York (as head of the army) [12] slowly improved the lot of the ordinary soldier. York oversaw a crackdown on corruption[13] and removed the threat of corporal punishment for a large number of petty offences (while it was still retained for serious derelictions of duty). He also stamped down on the abuse of buying officer commissions, making it necessary for officers to serve two full years before either promotion or purchase to captain and six years before becoming a major[14] The establishment of the Royal Military Academy for officers was instigated due to York's influence,[15] while regular recruits to the army were allowed to join under contract for limited periods, rather than for life. Men such as Sir John Moore, Thomas Sydney Beckwith and Rowland Hill ‎characterised the new breed of officers who sought to improve the relationship between officers and men, motivating troops through mutual respect, reward and promotion rather than by relying on punishment. The Shorncliffe System for light infantry was established, being devised by Lt-Col Kenneth Mackenzie, and trained soldiers to think for themselves and act on initiative while the light infantry officers drilled alongside the men fostering comradeship. In addition, the introduction of new tactical and organisational flexibility contributed a great deal to the successes of the Peninsula and Waterloo.

The Army still struggled to raise the troops required to replace the discharged, wounded and dead as the war against France continued. As early as 1794, 18,596 soldiers died on active service and another 40,639 men were discharged.[10] This would remain a constant theme during the Napoleonic wars, and the British Army also used foreign volunteers, such as French Royalists, Germans, Greeks and Corsicans to supplement its forces. In 1813 one fifth of the army, 52,000 men, were such volunteers.[16] The British Army in 1813 contained over 250,000 men,[17] though this was much larger in comparison to the army at the beginning of the war, the all volunteer British army was still much smaller than that of France, which with conscription had an army over 2.6 million.[9]

Yes it did occur to me as well that he was only in the army for a very short time and was that actually "allowed"
the only other thing I thought of was he told a few Porkies on his marriage certificate - will perhaps have to find out what was on Bradshaw Street in 1849 and whether it was an army barracks?!

More questions - keeps us busy doesn't it

Henry Wright isn't on the 1851 census with his wife Alice as far as I can see. She is living with her father but Henry is presumably onbard a ship somewhere.


Is it possible that there are 2 Henry Wright's both marrying an Alice Leadbetter and the one in Manchester is not yours!!

Are these two of his children?
1871:
WRIGHT, Rueben - Boarder - 19 - Lancashire
WRIGHT, Shadrach - Boarder - 18 - Lancashire
Address: Railway Street, North Meols, Southport, Lancashire
RG10 - Piece: 3875 - Folio: 42 - Page: 28

Ed Off. - Ancestry have swopped images around Alice Wright with her father is on image no 20 and Henry is on image 19 on the top of the page as a married son-in-law boatman these pages should be the other way around!

Dickiesam - Yes Reuben and Shadrach are boarding in Southport, whilst their mother Alice and 5 yr old son Thomas are in Portsmouth. Henry is on 2 census in 1871 one on board Warrior and also in 23 Hawke Street with Alice and Thomas. Their other son William born 1856 is missing from 1871.

Alice and children Robert (supposed to be Reuben) Shadrack and William living with her parents in Mount Street, Southport Piece: 2196 Folio: 529 Page Number: 15

Another theory gone west!!

I'm off to bed!!

Should have asked sooner....
What evidence do you have that makes the 1851 Henry Wright boatman, possibly ex-soldier, the same HW who served in the RN from abt 1852.

What is his occupation on the birth certs of his children Rueben and Shadrach in particular, bn 1851 Sep qtr and 1852 Sep qtr.

And when and where were his other children William and Thomas born? Very odd change of naming which makes me a little suspicious there may be two HWs as Hilary suggested.

Ooohhh you've got me questioning my whole research now!!!

If I go backwards with what I have:
Shadrach Wright married Isabella Highton 8th April 1875 St Cuthbert, North Meols son of Henry Wright a Labourer witnesses William Wright and Marintha Highton.

Announcement in Southport Visitor - WRIGHT-HIGHTON April 8th at St Cuthbert Church, Churchtown by Rev E H Thomas Shadrach second son of Mr Henry Wright late leading stoker on HMS Warrior to Isabella eldest daughter of Mr John Highton builder Churchtown

so 1871 census Shadrach boarding with brother Reuben in Railway Street, Southport no parents or brother William - didn't have access to Ancestry when I started on Wrights didn't find them locally.

1861 Alice Wright married living with Robert, Shadrack and William with Thomas and Esther Leadbetter in Mount Street, Southport Detail: Class: RG9; Piece: 2761; Folio: 106; Page: 24; GSU roll: 543025.

1851 Henry married to Alice living with in-laws in Burscough

Shadrach born 28th August 1852 Martin's Lane, Burscough, whilst Henry was on HMS Rodney at that time Henry was only Ordinary Seaman, Alice give's Henry's occupation as Boatman - she can't read or write.

Haven't got birth certificate for Reuben. I have also not found any baptisms for Reuben or Shadrach or any of the other children which also makes me suspect Non-Conformist. Alice was baptised at Churchtown Independant Chapel.

William Wright was born abt 1856 according to 1861 census but haven't been able to find him in any other census or marrying. I only found Thomas when I could search the 1871 census nationally with an index! He is supposed to have been born Southport in 1867. Then I only found out recently there was a further child - Elizabeth Alice buried in the family plot she was born about 1872 and died 1874. Alice must have got pregnant when Henry came out of the Navy!

As far as the names go - Reuben I haven't a clue! Shadrach was perhaps named after Alice's eldest brother. William ?? Thomas after Alice's father Thomas Leadbetter and Elizabeth Alice after Alice's mother and herself.

Though looking at his navy records with his list of ships I'm not sure as to how he could have fathered William and Thomas! He only had a day between ships

Rodney Ordinary Seaman 30/04/1852 30/01/1856 Crimea War
Pearl Stoker 31/01/1856 16/06/1859
Minotaur Leading Stoker 17/06/1859 09/07/1859
Clio Leading Stoker 10/07/1859 29/08/1863
Cumberland Leading Stoker 30/08/1863 29/02/1864
Trafalgar Leading Stoker 01/03/1864 16/09/1865
Orontes Leading Stoker 17/09/1865 22/01/1866
Forester Leading Stoker 23/01/1866 30/09/1867
Opossum Leading Stoker 01/10/1867 01/08/1868
Ocean Leading Stoker 02/08/1868 14/07/1869

The only marriage I could find for Henry Wright to Alice Leadbetter is the one at Manchester Cathedral.