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Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 09 Oct 2012 14:44
by Nannielle
I have been trying to trace a marriage between James Houghton c1821 and Ellen Alcock c1824 in and around the Widnes Farnworth area without success.St Wilfreds church Farnworth was where their children were baptised but would be grateful for any help to try and take my research back further ie I need their parents names off the marriage certificate and hope someone can help me.
Any ideas please??

Nannielle

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 09 Oct 2012 15:56
by Bertieone
Hi Nan,
is this the family in 1851,

Address, High road to Runcorn?

James, head, 30, Dealer in Groceries,
Ellen, wife, 27,
Elizabeth, dau, 5
Mary, dau 4
Isaac, son, 1,
Isabelle Abbot, 19, house servant

Ho 107, Piece 2194, Folio 75, Page 15.


Bert

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 09 Oct 2012 16:27
by Nannielle
Hi, yes....that is the right family.
Any help is much appreciated in finding the marriage.
Thank you
Nan

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 09 Oct 2012 16:54
by Blue70
Hi Nannielle,

Welcome to the forum. For the benefit of anyone wishing to help here is some research from elsewhere to avoid duplication:-

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.ph ... 227.0.html


Blue

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 09 Oct 2012 17:36
by Blue70
One of the people on Rootschat mentioned that Ellen could have married with a different surname ie there was a marriage of a James Houghton and Ellen Bradshaw at St. Michael's Liverpool in 1844. Unfortunately this church is not well covered on Family Search, Ancestry or Online Parish Clerks for some reason so we can't check to see what was that Ellen's father's name.

Blue

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 09 Oct 2012 18:43
by Nannielle
That marriage was the only one I could find on FreeBMD so I sent for marriage cert and the address given is Scotland Road in Liverpool and Ellen Bradshaw is stated as being of Full age .The James Houghton on the certificate is a Carter of Heaton street. I wasnt convinced that it was the right couple ......what does anyone else think please???
Could they have left Widnes/Farnworth and then returned there when they started their Family??

Nan

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 10 Oct 2012 07:17
by MaryA
Nannielle wrote: I wasnt convinced that it was the right couple ......what does anyone else think please???
Please give the details from the certificate so that we could offer an opinion.

Father's names and occupations and witnesses are every bit as vital as ages and addresses of the bride and groom.

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 10 Oct 2012 09:19
by ceratonia
From the other thread, you have from Lancashire OPC

Baptised on 7? Jan 1844 St Nicholas, Halewood, Lancashire, England
Ellen Alcock the Child of Edward Alcock & Mary
Born 2 Jun 1822
Abode: Farnworth?
Occupation: Watch Maker

which seems to match up well with:

1841 census Farnworth, Prescot ,Widnes H0107/517/8
Edward Alcock,watchmaker aged 40
William Alcock,aged 18,agricultural labourer
Richard Alcock aged 15
Ellen Alcock aged 15
all born in county

So I speculate that she got baptised in order to have a church wedding - probably at Halewood in early 1844 - which also matches with oldest daughter being 5 in 1851. The Lancashire OPC records don't include any marriages at St. Nicholas before 1846, but baptisms start there in 1839. So would need to be looked up in the original parish registers.

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 10 Oct 2012 09:45
by MaryA
You collected a lot of information from the Rootschat thread, can you detail the investigations you have done to either confirm or discount what was discovered for you.

Ceratonia has a good point there - have you visited the local Library/Record Office to see the St Nicholas Register ?

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 10 Oct 2012 09:54
by ceratonia
Only thing is - although baptisms started at St. Nicholas when it first opened in 1839, it's not clear to me that there were actually any weddings there until 1846.

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 10 Oct 2012 17:09
by ceratonia
The 1824 Baines Directory lists less than 20 people in Appleton in Widnes - but one of them is Thomas Alcock, watch movement maker.

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 10 Oct 2012 17:11
by MaryA
I think a direct enquiry to the Liverpool Record Office would be in order, alternatively it would require a search of close Parishes.

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 10 Oct 2012 20:06
by Nannielle
Thank you for all your advice. I will get in touch with the Liverpool records office and hope something shows up in the St Nicholas Halewood records.
Thank you all once again
Nan

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 11 Oct 2012 20:43
by Tex T
I appreciate that you are trying to find the marriage of James and Ellen to determine the name of James’ father, but as the marriage is “missing” at the moment have you considered looking for James’ baptism?

Am I right in saying that he was born circa 1820 and gives his place of birth in the censuses as Widnes? If so then there seems to be only one candidate (from lan-opc),

Baptisms: 27 Aug 1819 St Wilfrid, Farnworth
James Houghton - Son of Isaac Houghton & Elizabeth
Abode: Widnes
Occupation: Farmer

(There is another James Houghton baptised at the same church in 1820, but he was born in nearby Cronton, and, also, he seems to be in Warrington for the 1851 and 1861 censuses.)

Obviously you really need the marriage to confirm the name of James’ father (and like Ellen, perhaps James was not baptised soon after birth), but at the time of the birth, circa 1820, the population in this area was not large, so the number of James Houghtons you are likely to have to choose from would be very limited.

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 12 Oct 2012 07:38
by MaryA
Nice input Tex, fingers crossed for some sort of proof now.

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 12 Oct 2012 11:51
by ceratonia
I've spent some time in the past trying to sort through all of the Houghtons baptised at Farnworth and elsewhere - and came to the conclusion that there are quite a lot of Houghtons/Haughtons in prescot/widnes/st. helens census who don't appear in the Lancs OPC records. So I'd be slightly wary of saying that just because there's only one baptism, it must be the correct person. (Although in this case, it does seem very probable). There's more than 100 Houghton's in the 1841 census for Farnworth (and more than that for Hale).

Background being that I have James Marsh marrying Mary Houghton 10 Jul 1831 at St. Wilfrid, Farnworth, both stated to be "of this parish" although in later censuses they're both from St. Helens. Don't have a reliable baptism or parents for either of these two. At the marriage of their son James Marsh, who married Jane Price on 18 AUG 1856 at Saint Nicholas, Liverpool there are Samuel and Elizabeth Houghton as witnesses. I speculate that these two witnesses could be the groom's cousins (there are brother and sister Elizabeth & Samuel Houghton baptised at Farnworth in 1836 & 1838 respectively) with parents Richard & Ann, Farmer of Widnes. Until I can link them with Mary Houghton, though, it's just speculation.

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 06 Jan 2013 19:09
by Tex T
ceratonia,

I have just come across this website,

http://www.johnhoughton.me.uk/

Perhaps it might be of interest to you.

Re: Houghton and Alcock marriage in Widnes poss 1840/5

Posted: 06 Jan 2013 20:01
by Nannielle
Thank you for the new information.....I have hit a brick wall with this research so hopefully I can now move it on !!!
Many thanks
Nan