Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Elizabeth Birtles/Bertles born c 1825 was my x4 cousin once removed.

I Have her full history re census until her death 1874.

1841 census:Class HO107 Piece: 562 Book 2

Elizabeth is living with my x4 g.mother Mary Gratrix nee Fairhurst nee Birtles
address: Crosshall str;(Bartee back)? she is listed as Ind.

Elizabeth married Charles Hampson 24/12/1843 St. Nicholas

By 1871: RG10 Piece:3787 Folio: 49 pg:14
Elizabeth is living 13 Cases Str; Lime Str; occ: Hotel manageress(with a son Robert Hampson born c1851 L.pool).

2 questions:

1.After Googling : 13 Cases Str; is now listed as Coopers Public House.
Have I got the correct place?

2. On the 1871 census Elizabeth says she is widowed but she's not here we go again

Her hubby Charles Hampson on the 1871 census:RG10 Piece: 3848 Folio:148
pg:33 is alive and living with the other children at:
The Royal Standard Public House 32 Town Row Knotty Ash (dist 55). He says he is married.

Have I got the correct place and is this pub still there? Have googled but not sure.



Gray

I have heard of the Royal Standard which may well be classed as West Derby nowadays, I wonder if this could be it http://www.flickr.com/photos/liverpools ... 523075494/

I'm fairly sure I'm right about this as it is situated on the corner of Leyfield Road and Deysbrook Lane, right at the point where Leyfield Road changes it's name to Town Row.

Hope this works https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Leyfie ... 66,,0,7.81

Gray wrote: 1.After Googling : 13 Cases Str; is now listed as Coopers Public House.
Have I got the correct place?

This will be the correct pub but whether it was called by the same name then I don't know, but possibly Daggers will I believe he has a book with pubs in it.

Added - http://www.merseypub.com/guide/pu55.htm it's listed here and only became known as Coopers in 1925.

Mary,

Many thanks..I did know this area quite well once, although I have been away over 40 years now

I have a feeling this is turning into another saga..

I suppose if I am lucky enough to trace my family back to the 17th C L.pool.. there will be the odd scandal or two

Gray

Outside 13 Cases Street... It is indeed Cooper's now.
http://youtu.be/00X55H0211Y

Thanks DS,

I have not had chance to set my speakers up yet since engineers visit.
I will do it this afternoon.. am looking forward to listening

Gray

I have just caught up.
In my 1909 'Licensing Report Book' the Licensed premises at 13 Cases Street was called 'The Sefton'. The others in the street were 1, Princes Restaurant (perhaps not a pub), 7 Vine Hotel, 9 London Oyster Stores, 17 The Globe. The Waterloo was on the corner of Clayton Square and the Midland (still there) on the corner of Ranelagh Street.

The only one listed for Leyfield or Deysbrook Roads was at 2 Leyfield Rd, Crown Inn. Nothing shown for Town Row.

D

Thanks for checking D, I think I prefer the name 'The Sefton'.

This is proving to be very interesting research!

I chanced on a public tree on Anc for Elizabeth Birtles, to my surprise there are photo's of her, her husband Charles, plus a daughter:

Ann Hampson born c 1854 L.pool(This tree has her born Milnthorpe Westmorland)Ann herself on one census confirms this.. however no BMD for her in Westmorland.. possibilities L.pool.

Ann Hampson married a William Baker born c1840 Waterloo occ: publican.
They married St Philip 1871

There is a story on the tree. I cannot cut & paste it here (not my property)It is interesting!

One paragraph: from a letter from a governor HMP L.pool 68 Hornby Rd. Regarding the execution of William Baker.

"I can confirm that William Baker was executed at Kirkdale prison 6th Sept 1875, alongside Edward Cooper who was executed for the murder of Edward Jones on the "High Seas". The executioner was William Marwood of Horncastle Lincs.

I wish I could put the whole letter here, as the assizes were held at St George's Hall, it goes into some detail.

William Baker was the publican of the Railway Vaults, stood at the junction of Houghton str; & Williamson Sq. now part of St. John's precinct.

A few years after Ann re-married James Mudie Steel.

I don't want to step on anyones toes Mary.. if by me copying this is against the rules, I fully understand if you delete it. I believe all these fascinating stories about L.pool and her citizens should be told.

Gray

There should be reports in the Liverpool Mercury, one of the newspapers available online via certain library cards.
I will have a look for anything on the Railway Vaults later.
D

Thanks D,

Just googled and found this on William Baker:

Another incident was a shooting on London Road in 1875. This occurred when a landlord of the Railway Vaults in Williamson Square, William Baker, went for a drink with some of his associates. After he was refused entry into an unlawful tavern at Back Bridport Street, he left his friends. As he walked down London Road, a man he knew, Charles Langan, followed him. When they reached London Road, the men had a disagreement. Baker pulled out a firearm and shot Langan, who died shortly afterward. Baker was found guilty of murder and was hung at Kirkdale.

Gray

I cannot see anything for the Railway Vaults which may have been closed by 1909.
D

Thanks for trying D,

Charles Langan is buried at Ford Cemetery
Born c 1843 burial 13/7/1875

Gray

I don'tknow if this will work only while I'm logged in so if you want to download it make it quick, however I have had no luck in cropping it to just the story required and keeping it large enough to read, so take it whole. If it doesn't work possibly because I'm logged logged in to the site, send me a pmand we'll try to arrange a time when we are both online together so you can get it. It's too long to retype

Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Monday, July 12, 1875; Issue 8574

OK links apparently don't work for somebody else to access, so arrangements have been made to get these to Gray. I will delete all of my postings.

William Baker & Ann Hampson had 3 children.

One daughter: Winifred Mary Baker born 1875 L.pool married a John Evans LLoyd born 1864 L.pool.
They married Wallasey 22/4/1896

Again there is a picture on Anc of the couple.. John E lloyd has a chest full of medals.

One tree has him as a Lt. Col & another has him as the High Sheriff of Anglesey in 1937.

I have no evidence yet of either.

I have the family 1901 census: RG13 Piece Piece:3445 Folio:6 pg:4
address: 2 beach lawn? Waterloo

John E lloyd 37 cotton broker l.pool
Winifred 25 L.pool
Anita 4 Formby
Winifred A 1 Formby
Annie Steel (Ann Hampson) mother in law aged 46 Milnthorpe Westmorland.
Agnes Steel sister in law aged 22 hospital nurse L.pool


No luck yet re 1911 census.

Just found:

Medal Card For J E lloyd 9th L/Pool Regt
Theatre of war: France

Written on the card below it says:
F S Evans Esq applies on behalf of Lt Col J E LLoyd UD or VD for 1914-1915 star
7/8/19
Reply on EF9 27th Aug 1919
add: Oaklands House West Kirby Cheshire

Gray

9th Battalion, King's Liverpool Regiment were Territorials based at Bootle.
Ken Lees appears on this forum and knows more than anyone about that battalion, especially in WW1. You might try a personal message to him if his does not spot this thread, as he may hold info on Lloyd.
D

Thanks for pointing me in the direction D.
I will contact Mr Lees later today.

I would like to find out which tree is correct or both re LLoyd.


Gray

Thankyou for your help Mary with the Newspaper articles.

Have the the newspaper reports re the execution, I found it moving to say the least.



I have also found the probate for John Evans LLoyd:

LLoyd John Evans of Brentwood Eleanor Road Bidston Cheshire died 16/3/1941 Probate L.pool 18/9/1941 to John Hampson LLoyd Lieutenant -commander R.N.V.R. William Edgar Kenneth Webb - Brewer and Freda Viscountess Leverhulme(wife) of the Right honourable Viscount Leverhulme.
Effects: Considerable, even by todays standards.

John Hampson Lloyd was his son. Not sure yet the connection to the others.


Edit: Rather than jump this up the board.. can now confirm who the Freda re probate is:

Winifred Agnes Lloyd1F, #238458, d. 19 February 1966 Winifred Agnes Lloyd 19 Feb 1966|p23846.htm#i238458|Lt.-Col. J. E. Lloyd||p23846.htm#i238459

Last Edited=9 Jul 2007 Winifred Agnes Lloyd was the daughter of Lt.-Col. J. E. Lloyd.1 She married, firstly, Captain George Lee Morris before 1937.1 She married, secondly, William Hulme Lever, 2nd Viscount Leverhulme, son of William Hesketh Lever, 1st Viscount Leverhulme and Elizabeth Ellen Hulme, on 20 January 1937.1 She died on 19 February 1966.1

Winifred Agnes Lloyd also went by the nick-name of Freda.1 From before 1937, her married name became Morris.1 From 20 January 1937, her married name became Lever.1 She was invested as a Officer, Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St. John of Jerusalem (O.St.J.).1 She held the office of Justice of the Peace (J.P.) for Cheshire in 1950.1


Gray

I found a series of your posts from 2012 on William Baker, Annie Hampson, their descendants and Elizabeth Birtles and am responding. Gray and MaryA were having the exchange.
I am a great granddaughter of John Evans Lloyd and Winifred Baker and can answer questions you may still have about them and their descendants. Also about Annie (nee Hampson) in her later years.
Did you make any progress on Elizabeth Birtles? She and her husband were supposedly originally from Milnethorpe.
Do you have any information on the murder victim other than the fact that he was Charles Langan, 34, a cab driver and had a long running dispute with William Baker?
Sally

Hi and welcome to the forum. Perhaps you can add a link to the original post so that we can refer back to it.

Maybe this one?

https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... w=previous