Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I have a Michael McGuinness who appears as informant of the death of Bridget Brady formerly McGuinness in 1870 both were resident in court 5 at Raymond Street in 1870. Both were born in County Cavan, Ireland. They were probably brother and sister or cousins. Michael was a carter. I thought I had located Michael's death certificate but I'm not sure now.

This Michael died in the Liverpool Workhouse on 25 Feb 1886, aged 66 years old, occupation Labourer, address 4 Marlborough Street, buried 1 March 1886 at Walton Park, informant of death was the Master of the Liverpool Workhouse. I was surprised that the informant was not family. Could this be the same man as appears on the following censuses:-

1871 at Court 5, House 8 Raymond Street with his daughter:-

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VBFJ-33J


1881 at Court 5, House 7 Raymond Street on his own:-

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQDH-WM3


1881 Daughter is servant at 85 Evelyn Street full record says Co Cavan Ireland:-

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQ67-FW9


The change of occupation from carter to labourer, the change of address from Raymond Street to Marlborough Street and the fact that no family appear to have been around for his death/burial makes me wonder if it's the right man. Michael and his daughter Ann could be useful in identifying where in County Cavan my Brady family came from. I haven't been able to find Ann after 1881.


Blue

Hi Blue,
Does the death cert for Bridget Brady give an age at death for her? And is she shown as a widow?

Hi DS

Here are some details for Bridget Brady formerly McGuinness:-

Died 21 Mar 1870, aged 56 years old (born about 1814), Widow of Michael Brady, Labourer, informant: M McGuinness present at death (his address and place of death was Court 5 Raymond Street)

(Michael Brady died 7 Jan 1864 at Court 5 Raymond Street the informant was his daughter Susan Brady.)

1851 Census Bridget's age recorded as about 53 (born about 1798) - living at Court 10 House 6 Oriel Street.

1861 Census Bridget's age recorded as about 45 (born about 1816) - living at 3 Spring Buildings, Tatlock Street.

Michael McGuinness was also a witness at Susan Brady's marriage in 1862.

The Brady family are featured here:-

http://hollandfamilyhistory.weebly.com/brady.html



Blue

Hi Blue,
Not for a second doubting the research behind your website, but do you have any thoughts on how Michael and Bridget lost 20 years between 1851 and 1861? If their 1851 ages are correct at 50 and 53, they should be abt 60 and 63, not 42 and 45 as listed on the summary page. I have seen age discrepancies many times but never as much as that, unless the enumerator made a monumental error in his transcription.

The ages on the 1851 Census record for the Bradys at Oriel Street are wrong the enumerator probably rushed the job wanting to get out of there.


Blue

I checked the entry for this Michael McGuinness while at Liverpool yesterday.

Admitted to Workhouse 1st March 1884 McGuinness Michael aged 46yrs-4 Marlboro Place R/C Discharged/Died 25th-Feb-1886

I checked the entry in the Admission and Discharge register which sometimes gives next of Kin.

1st March 1884 McGuinness, Michael aged 46 Liverpool Roman Catholic Single-Labourer- 4, Marlborough Place. He had already been admitted into the workhouse prior to this date as he is recorded as having received relief before. Hope this helps Blue.

Very good of you to look that up Katie. Just to let everybody know that Katie is planning to give a talk at the Liverpool Group Meeting next year on the best way of searching Poor Law Records, I think this is going to be very helpful as it should alleviate long trawls through the microfilms by pinpointing just where to look.

Thanks very much for the look-up Katie I appreciate it. It's odd that the Workhouse have him as 46 years old. The fact that there's a query about about the age, the change of address, the change of occupation, a history of receiving relief and the absence of next of kin make me think this isn't my Michael McGuinness.


Blue

I will be covering the age discrepancies of workhouse records when I give my talk next year. It does clearly state in the register that he was 46 years when he was admitted, yet when he died he is recorded as 66 years old. The only reason for this is people looked older than they where or they were not conscious when admitted and they estimated how old they where. I don't think we'll ever find out about age errors in workhouse registers. My point is don't discount that the death registration is yours because of age.