Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi,

I am looking for,James Crosbie,a marine fireman in the 1890s to early 1900s,he had seven children to,Mary Elizabeth McDonald b1870 Birkenhead,they never married.The Children's names where, Elizabeth b1894 Birkenhead,Margaret b 1896 Liverpool,Thomas b 1899 Liverpool,Michael b1901 Liverpool,James b 1903 Liverpool.I can not fined the births of two of the children.On,Elizabeths birth certificate there is no named father. On the remaining four Children's birth certificates the father is named as,James Crosbie marine fireman.

The Stories told to me as a child,was that, James Crosbie was a,fireman on the,Pilot boats out of,Liverpool and that he died a young man.

If there are any,Crosbies reading this post and recognize,James Crosbie, please PM me.

Thanks for any help.

Del

Hi Del
Just to help the genies, they are in 1901 census as Crosby.
34 Emlyn St, Edge Hill (Low Hill) Mary 33 married charwoman
Elizabeth 7 both bn Bhead
Maggie 5, Thomas 2, Michael 2mnths all bn Lpool.
Michael Crosbie may have died aged 4 yrs and buried in Ford Cem 1.5.1905

Mary 39 is wid in 1911 lodging in Roddlesworth St Kensington.
Thom listed as Isom...Maggie & James.
There's an item in Rootschat by a poster about James under Tugboat/Pilot crews.
In Anc there is a tree, not much info, they have Mary Elizabeth McDonald died in 1913 aged 43yrs.
Young Thomas died 1911 aged 12 yrs. No info for James snr.
James jr dying in Huyton in 1968 having married Bridget Nixon.
Elizabeth marr Wm Pagan at St Phillips 1920 and died in 1960

The address for the 4 year old Michael Crosbie burial is given as Liverpool Coroner. To me that means there was in inquest, this may well be reported in the papers and the report may give more information. Burial was 1 May 1905 so the inquest would have been just before.

AncestryBMDs have a James Crosbie born about 1871 dying 1906. Have you tried that one?

Hi Hilary 1906 death circa was intimated in the rootschat site.
Thanks

Hi,Hilary

I have the death cert for,James Crosbie 1906,his occupation was a,tailor journeyman and his widow was ,M.E. Crosbie. I have also found a,James Crosbie on the:
1871 census RG 10 869 3 14 Scotland.
1881 census RG 11 869 3 27 Scotland.
1891 census RG 12 2954 77 51 England.

What i need now is some other documentation to prove this is the,James Crosbie i am looking for!

Del

The James Crosbie/Crosby who died in 1906 is alive and well in 1901 with his wife Elizabeth, and he is a tailor.
RG13 - Piece: 3463 - Folio: 53 - Page: 39
Address: 56 Akenside Street, Bootle Cum Linacre, Lancs.
CROSBY, James - Boarder - Md - 28 - 1873 - Tailor - Scotland
CROSBY, Elizabeth - Boarder - Md - 32 - 1869 - Liverpool, Lancashire

If there is no other evidence that the father of Mary E McDonald's children was a ship's fireman apart from birth certs, he may have been running two 'homes'. The trade of ship's fireman, aka stoker, would explain his absence from the home where his children were. It would also explain his absence from ships in port and at sea in the 1901 and wife Elizabeth explains the absence of a marriage to Mary McD.

1901, Vessels, Albert Dock,
James Crosbie, 22, Bn 1879, Seacombe,
Fireman,
RG13, Piece3406. Folio70

Hi,Dickiesam

Why on the 1901 census would they put,tailor as his occupation instead of fireman!

Del

On the above Vessel there's also a James Crosbie aged 50, probably the father of James the younger,

1881,
James Crosbie, 30, Liverpool, Head, Fireman on Steamer,
Margaret, 29, Wife, Lpool,
Margaret J, 8
James 5, Seacombe,
George,

RG11 Piece3591, Folio128, Page12

dickiesam wrote:The James Crosbie/Crosby who died in 1906 is alive and well in 1901 with his wife Elizabeth, and he is a tailor.
RG13 - Piece: 3463 - Folio: 53 - Page: 39
Address: 56 Akenside Street, Bootle Cum Linacre, Lancs.
CROSBY, James - Boarder - Md - 28 - 1873 - Tailor - Scotland
CROSBY, Elizabeth - Boarder - Md - 32 - 1869 - Liverpool, Lancashire

Are you sure its' not Sailor? you know what it's like on these records.. t's that are s's, f's that are s's and so on

Hi Simone,

When compared with other S's on the form it looks like a T, further up there's a Tanner, similar T.

Ahh thanks Bert. It was just a thought. Not seen it as not at home on internet, just got forum on my phone, and no good trying to do research on the phone

Del wrote:Hi,Dickiesam
Why on the 1901 census would they put,tailor as his occupation instead of fireman!
Del

Because he was in fact a tailor? Remember it was the head of household who completed the household form and he would have known, as his wife Elizabeth did, that that James Crosby was indeed a tailor who worked for someone else.

1901, Vessels, Albert Dock,
James Crosbie, 22, Bn 1879, Seacombe,
Fireman,
RG13, Piece3406. Folio70

FamilySearch seems to have 2 entries for a James Crosbie b 1879 in Seacombe, Cheshire. One entry has him on Vessels, the other has him living in Seacombe with wife Charlotte and son James Arthur.

FreeBMD has a marriage for James Crosbie and Charlotte Harward M Dickson in Q2 1899, Birkenhead.

Alison

Bertieone wrote:1901, Vessels, Albert Dock,
James Crosbie, 22, Bn 1879, Seacombe,
Fireman,
RG13, Piece3406. Folio70

Good find Bert.
So it would appear there were 3 James Crosbies? The 22 year old fireman is too young to have a daughter Elizabeth bn abt 1894, so he could be her brother or step-brother. Probably the latter if the James Crosbie aged 50 left his wife Margaret to live with Mary McD, and that does explain the lack of a marriage between them.

And since the 'widow' Mary Crosby/McDonald says in the last census that she has been married a face-saving 17 years that puts daughters Elizabeth and Margaret into the 'legitimate' child 'slot' as far as anyone outside the family was concerned.

There are 5 deaths at sea for a Crosbie between Jan 1903 and April 1911.

FreeBMD has a marriage for James Crosbie and Charlotte Harward M Dickson in Q2 1899, Birkenhead.
Alison

I think that would be the 22 year old JC, possibly a son of the JC bn abt 1851.

Hi all,

Just read through the census form 1901, City of London was a steam paddle tug, James jnr 22 was on shore leave and should not have been transcribed. Where he is with his wife Charlotte is correct.

From DS: There are 5 deaths at sea for a Crosbie between Jan 1903 and April 1911.

Only 3 of the above deaths appear to be crewmen. The rest are passengers.
The Leicester Castle - Oct 1905; Lady St Johns - Aug 1907; and the City - June 1905.
No other details available, just the surname.

The 1881 census, RG11, P3591, F128, Page12, if it is the father and son connected to the Vessel 1901, James jnr born 1876 would be old enough to father the first child, on saying that, there is no known fathers name attached to Elizabeth the first born. Also on the bottom of the name list, 1881 is a George Dickson 21, Charlotte's maiden name. Hmmm