Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi everyone, I could do with your expert opinions please.

I have a Hannah Ayre born 1866, West Derby, whose parents are James Ayre, a mariner, born London and Hannah Lunt, born Liverpool. James father and siblings came to Liverpool before the 1851 census and we have no reason to believe that there were any relatives left there.

In the 1871 census Hannah is at home with her aunt Elizabeth Lunt, mother Hannah Ayre, brothers, and an uncle Richard Lunt. RG10; Piece: 3848; Folio: 62; Page: 7

Then in 1881 she is working as a general servant for Alice and Jannett Park in Milbourne House, West Derby. RG11; Piece: 3712; Folio: 105; Page: 4

Following this she has been missing for many years, no sign of her in subsequent censuses, marriage or a death.

I have recently discovered an online tree, the evidence of which is based so far as I can ascertain and have yet to be confirmed by the owner, on the marriage of Hannah Ayre and Theophile Leforgeais in St Simon's Church, Chelsea, London. She is 26 years old, a spinster and gives her father's details as James Ayre, Sea Captain. The witnesses to the marriage were his parents (born France although Theophilus Gabriel and his siblings were born in London).

Following on from here it has been quite easy to track them emigrating to New York and visiting back and forth mainly to visit his parents in London, and in censuses with their children, living in New York. Each of the USA censuses give her birthplace merely as "England". She died in 1944 and is buried in Moravian Cemetery, Staten Island.

My question is the obvious one - how can I be certain that this Hannah is definitely our Hannah born in West Derby, the father being correct, despite the fanciful "Sea Captain" for his occupation rather than mariner, is a good start. I have also attempted to trace each of the Hannah Ayre's born throughout the country between 1861 and 1871 and can find no trace of any of them having a James for a father, although one I believe may be illegitimate and another gone into hiding (details of these available if required).

Any further suggestions would be welcome please, especially if anybody is able to find her in the 1891 census, as she could well be in London at this time I suppose.

Any marriage announcements in the papers?

Good thinking, I'd overlooked that one, but now I've looked I can't find any entry for that surname.

Wow - I put Hannah's name into the search and surprisingly discovered her mother's death

Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Monday, December 18, 1899; Issue 16216.
SHOCKING DEATH OF A WOMAN
The Liverpool Coroner (Mr T E Sampson) and a jury investigated a particularly sad case on Saturday morning. It appeared that an elderly and feeble woman named Hannah Ayre, the widow of a stevedore, lived with her son at 8, Victoria Terrace, Torr Street. Last Thursday night the son went out for half an hour, leaving his mother sitting by the kitchen fire. When he returned he found her lying head downwards and unconscious at the bottom of the stairs. Her head was bleeding and her hair was blazing in a fallen lighted candle, while a blanket was lying loosely about the stairs. He put out the flames and called in neighbours, Police, and a doctor, but the unfortunate woman was dead before the latter arrived. It was presumed that she had been carrying the blanket upstairs, had tripped in a dangling end, and so fallen down. Verdict "Accidental Death".

Well as she was the widow of a stevedore, if the marriage was definitely her daughter then as we know is often the case, the truth was a bit embellished.

Hi,
This 1891 fits roughly with the accident report on Hannah's mother's death...
The father is a dock labourer [aka stevedore]. May have been at sea before working on the docks? And Hannah needed a bit of embellishment for his occupation when she married?

RG12 Piece: 2980 Folio: 10 Page: 14
Address: 7, Morecombe Street, Walton On The Hill, Walton, Lancashire
AYRE, James Head Married 55 1836 Dock Labourer Middlesex
AYRE, Hannah Wife Married 49 1842 West Derby, Lancashire
AYRE, Oliver H Son Married 21 1870 Painter West Derby, Lancashire

? Deaths Jun 1895: Ayre James 58 W. Derby 8b 310

Haven't found young Hannah yet in 1891 though!

Yes thanks DS, you have those details right. I have most censuses for all of the family, just that 1891 for Hannah causing me the problems.

We have always believed James was away at sea a lot, he's away from the family in the '51, '61 and '71 although in that last his wife claims to be a "stonemason's wife".

The census information does only say birthplace England, have you overlooked here,
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7488/ ... turnRecord

Place of birth, Liverpool.

Sorry Bert I can't access that as it requires worldwide subscription - I went to the library to get my census entries, any chance of an emailed copy please?

No problem Mary,

PM, address.

Sent, Mary.

Well a huge thank you to Bert for the passenger list which actually gives her birthplace as "Liverpool". The clincher!!!!

Case now closed I believe, thanks everybody for your help.

Just an extra comment, it would appear that you gets what you pays for. The Ancestry.co.uk edition has the Outward Passenger Lists for the date that Bert discovered, however, it doesn't include the "List or Manifest of Alien Passengers", which is in the database New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 and which has that extra detail of birthplace included.

Hi MaryA
I have found a copy of the marriage certificate for Hannah and will send it to you if you let me know your email address
yappie

Glad you've solved the mystery! Well done Bert!

Thanks Yappie I do have the certificate, lovely of you to offer though.

For all we complain about the shortfalls of Ancestry, without it where would we be, I have a file full of passenger lists, Censuses, both England and with the assistance of the library, USA, Probate Registers, Land Tax Records and Electoral Registers, in addition to marriage and baptism certificates, and it has built up a wonderful picture of an adventurous life of this lady whose life, if everything had been down to manual searches prior to the advent of the internet - and Ancestry - would have been lost to us after her age 15.

It is an excellent resource, when all is said and done. I'm glad you've found her.

An extra thank you to Bertie for providing some useful input for our Liverpool Group meeting yesterday evening - "Family History and the Internet".

As Katie wanted me to run through the registration of the forum for those who were a little tentative about how to do it, I continued on with the story of how you confirmed her birthplace for me and under the heading of the Internet, was able to describe successes for the two sites - comparing Ancestry.COM to Ancestry.co.uk and also letting our members know just how great our crew on the forum are in resolving problems.