Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi Guys,
I could do with a bit of inspirational help! I am helping a friend research her family tree and am having trouble confirming the birth and parents' names of her maternal grandmother, Mary Weatherall nee Shannon. I have found 3 possible 1884 Mary Shannon births in Liverpool. I have also found the following birth record which seems to match the 1891 census

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906 about Maria Shannon
Name: Maria Shannon
Birth Date: 13 Apr 1884
Baptism Date: 5 May 1884
Parish: Holy Cross
Father's Name: Eduardi Shannon
Mother's Name: Catharinae Euzard

I know that Mary married Anthony C Weatherall in 1902 and from the marriage certificate we have the name of her father given as as Edward Shannon and on the 1891 census, if it is the right family, the wife's name is given as Catherine. One of other names on the census is a Mary Vizzard which would indicate, despite the different spelling on the birth record , that she was Catherine's mother even though she is registered as Edward's.

I have been unable to find a marriage for an Edward Shannon to a Catherine Vizzard/Euzard.

ASny help would be appreciated.

Cheers
Frank

Hi Frank, 1891 Mary Vizard is 84 bn Connaught Ire listed as mother of the head of the household which is Edward.
Edwd & Cath have a daughter who is 21 Bridget bn Lpool then a big gap to your Mary 7.
Interesting family.
RG12/2907/27/27

Hi Tina,

Nice to hear from you. Hope all is well? Yes, the gap between the two girls -14 years - is unusual to say the least, especially as tv hadn't yet been invented. (lol)
However, is it the right family or just coincidence re the names and link to the 1884 birth record?

Cheers
Frank

PS. Surely if Mary Vizzard was Edward's mother she would have been recorded as Mary Shannon and not Vizzard??


Cheers
Frank

I believe Mary would be Catherine's mother, it could be that Catherine gave the information to the enumerator and merely said "mother" without specifying whose mother she was.

Per LancashireBMD marriage of Edward Shannon to Catherine Vizzard 1889 Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended which probably signifies an RC marriage, which ties in with the religion of the baptism for Mary, despite the date

It doesn't appear to have taken place at Holy Cross where Mary's baptism was, nor any other RC marriages online, you would need to check out which RC churches were near to where they lived and perhaps check them out at the Record Office, alternatively you could order the certificate from the GRO, the reference you need is Q4 1889 Liverpool 8b 361.

Lewisff wrote: Mother's Name: Catharinae Euzard

You have only quoted the transcription, have you not looked at the original image? which reads Vizard to me.

Hi Tina (again)

I have just checked Freebmd and there are no Bridget Shannon births recorded between 1868 and 1884 and only one Mary Shannon birth for the June qtr of 1884. This would match the April Catholic birth record.

Cheers
Frank

Thanks Mary. From what you say, Mary was born illegitimately with the parents marrying 5 years later.!!
No wonder I couldn't find it. I will order the marriage cert and let you know where the nuptial's took place.

Cheers
Frank

Guessing, perhaps because of Edward's age, it could be that he already had a wife still living who may have died about that date which made him available to marry then.

Hi Mary,

Yes that might explain the gap between Mary's birth and her parents. marriage. There are two 2 Shannon deaths in Liverpool between 1884 and 1889

Deaths Sep 1885 (>99%)
SHANNON Mary 58 Liverpool 8b 85

Deaths Dec 1887 (>99%)
Shannon Margaret 45 Liverpool 8b 90

I should think the second one is a possible as the first is too old.

Cheers
Frank

Pity I couldn't find any burials on Ancestry as it might have given a clue for address.

Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988 about Margaret Shannon
Name: Margaret Shannon
Birth Year: abt 1844
Age: 45
Death Year: abt 1889
Burial Date: 3 May 1889
Parish: Ford Cemetery

View original image

There is this one!! If it is, he didn't spend too much time in mourning before he married Catherine.

Cheers
Frank

Hello Frank!
My thoughts in passing.....

Catherine Vizzard may have been married twice and the daughter Bridget Shannon was born under another surname.
Found this:
Marriage: VIZZARD, Catherine
Registration district: Liverpool
Year of registration: 1867; Sep qtr
Volume no: 8B; Page no: 421

Catherine Vizzard married either HAUGHNEY, James Joseph, MANGAN, Owen, or WALSH, Patrick.

The only Catherine with one of those married names and a child Bridget of the right age in 1871 is:

RG10 - Piece: 3770 - Folio: 106 Page: 19
Address: 13 Court, 1 House, Lace Street, Liverpool
WALSH, Patk Head 28 1843 Seaman Hull, Yorkshire
WALSH, Catherin Wife 22 1849 Liverpool
WALSH, Bridget Dtr 1 1870 Liverpool
Cain, Margaret Lodger 16 u/m Fruit packer Liverpool.
Romney[?], Catherine Lodger 17 u/m fruit hawker Liverpool.

Hi DS!

Thanks for your input. It is much appreciated. Just found this death for a Patrick Walsh aged 33 which would match the age of the guy you found on the 1871 census:

Deaths Mar 1877 (>99%)
Walsh Patrick 33 Liverpool 8b 77.

Is there any sign of Catherine Vizzard / Edward Shannon on the 1881 census?

Cheers
Frank

Lewisff wrote: Name: Margaret Shannon
Birth Year: abt 1844
Age: 45
Death Year: abt 1889
Burial Date: 3 May 1889
Parish: Ford Cemetery

The address for this lady was 9 Johnstone Street and the grave was 2686. There are a couple of other burials within a few days with the same grave number, so presumably it is a general grave rather than a private one.

DS's find seems a good one.

Marriage Holy Cross 14 July 1867 (I've changed the names from latinicised to English)
Patrick Walsh of Lace Street, parents Patrick and Bridget Walsh
Catherine Vizzard of Lace Street, parents Anthony and Maria Vizzard
Witnesses Patrick Costello of North Street and Maria Keane of Lace Street

First child named after his mother? reminiscent of the naming pattern?

Looking for Catherine earlier, before marriage, and checking the baptisms, I have also found

St Mary's, 2nd December, 1849, born 12 November
Thomas Vizard parents Anthony and Mary,
Godparents John Neill and Mary Vizard

There are also possibles with the same parents names
St Mary's 11 June 1837, born 6th June - John Vizzers
Godparents Patric O'Donnell and Margaret Nicholson

Holy Cross 8 July, 1855 born 5 July 1855 - Elizabeth Vizbeth

St Anthony's 15 July, 1838, born 5 July, 1838 Henry Vizard, father Anthony, mother including maiden name Mary Cunningham. Godparents Michael Egan and Ann McNulty

There is also a burial for an Anthony Vizzard on 23 March, 1836 at St Mary's. His address was Bispham Street and he was 3 weeks old, bless him.

Thanks Mary. Yes, DS's find does seem to fit. I suspect that I am right regarding the 1877 Patrick Walsh death and would explain why there were no more children.

Cheers
Frank

See the baptisms I posted above, think our posts crossed. Unfortunately I believe I have found this family in 1851 in 51 Bispham Street, Dale Street area, with Anthony 35 a dock labourer, Mary 30 both born Ireland and children Henry 12 and William 7, both born Liverpool. HO107; Piece: 2179; Folio: 73; Page: 70. This Mary may be quite a bit out for age.

The only death for an Anthony I can see is Q4 1864 Liverpool 8b 106 - no age given at this date.

OK an address has just jumped out at me

Burial in Ford Cemetery of Jane Vizzard 6 February 1872 - 17 years. Address Lace Street
Grave 347, again this looks like a general grave.

Well the Vizzards should be in Lace Street, probably near the Walshes in 1871 but I've just walked holes in my shoeleather up and down the street without coming across them.

Thanks for all your help on this one.
Cheers
Frank