Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi, please can anyone help with finding my great grand father

Thomas Johnstone b 1871 Penrith
Married 1895
Frances Bertha Morgan b 1871 Liverpool
He marries in Liverpool has 1 child, then appears in Bradford by 1901 where he has 2 children.
By 1911 he is back in Liverpool where he has my grandma Frances

Shortly after getting married he became Thomas Dennison Johnstone, and his 4 children all had Dennison as their middle name.
On his marriage certificate he is Thomas Johnstone and His father is listed as John Johnstone.
I cannot find a likely Thomas Johnstone in the Cumberland area albeit not one that has any link to a Dennison.

Although I do have a Thomas Dennison b 1872 Cumberland on the 1891 census living and working in Liverpool as A drapers apprentice.
On my Grandmothers birth certificate [1909] Thomas D Johnstones occupation is that of drapers assistant.

Could I be on the right trail here? and how could I find confirmation ?
Any advice or help would be most welcome .
Thanks, Chris

Re:

Shortly after getting married he became Thomas Dennison Johnstone, and his 4 children all had Dennison as their middle name.
On his marriage certificate he is Thomas Johnstone and his father is listed as John Johnstone.

Hi Chris,
A common reason for 'adopting' an additional name is to acknowledge a bequest in a will. There may even be a condition in a will that the beneficiary agrees to the continuance of a surname in order to receive a bequest.

Another reason could be to simply honour or remember the memory of someone, perhaps a relative, whose life was significant to Thomas. My father [1906 - 1954] and I have a second forename which is the surname of a paternal g.g.father who died in 1878 aged 37. His widow raised 5 children on her own and died in 1922. A cousin of mine also had the name.

The other side of the coin is that Dennison was his real name, possibly he was illegitimate. I don't see a birth for a Thomas Johnstone (of that exact spelling) born in the district of Penrith between 1870 and 1872, however I do see a Thomas Dennison Q3 1872 Penrith 10b 427.

The Cumbria Archives list a few churches in Penrith http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/archives/onli ... parish.asp
the records appear to be held at Carlisle, contact details http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/arch ... .asp?LR=23

Perhaps an email enquiry might get you a quick 15 minute look up to see what they find.

MaryA wrote:The other side of the coin is that Dennison was his real name, possibly he was illegitimate. I don't see a birth for a Thomas Johnstone (of that exact spelling) born in the district of Penrith between 1870 and 1872, however I do see a Thomas Dennison Q3 1872 Penrith - 10b - 427.

The above is a much more plausible suggestion than mine. He could have been born Dennison nee Dennison but raised as a Johnstone if his mother later married or he was fostered.

hi Dickie and Mary,

That is the route I was thinking, and the Thomas Dennison you mention is the one I have found, and on the 1881 census he lives with his mother Mary Dennison single and his grandmother Elisabeth Dennison.
Also, his mothers occupation is that of Dressmaker. perhaps that's the link he ends up in Liverpool as a drapers apprentice.,

Following Marys death in 1899 Penrith 10b 320 it seems to coincide with Thomas adding the surname Johnstone. did his mother reveal his fathers name before she died ?
Would it be of any use getting Thomas Dennisons birth certificate , although his fathers name John would not be on it if he was illegitimate.
Is there anyway of verifying this information linking this Thomas
to the Thomas D Johnstone in Liverpool.
Im still wet behind the ears researching my family so any advice will be most helpful.
Thanks again for taking the time to look
Chris

If I were you I would certainly make an enquiry with the Cumbria Record Office, if you can't get there yourself, and see if they would be kind enough to do a quick look up for a baptism, this might tell you as much as a birth certificate if one could be found.

Have you looked for a John Johnstone in Penrith at the time of the birth, might there be one married living nearby?

It will be extremely difficult to corroborate the change of name from the child to the adult in Liverpool. Instead of trying to connect your Thomas to that child, do the exercise the other way around. You have two censuses after his name change, search for any other Thomas Dennison that could possibly be the one born in Penrith, also check all marriages for that name and any death that you can find that matches that date of birth.

If after you discount every other instance, and the only one left is the one in Liverpool it might be possible to consider him seriously.

Sorry not to be more positive about it but I can't think of another way of being sure.

Thanks for the advice Mary, I Have rang Cumbria , I asked about the birth certificate and they said they would check if it named a father as John, they said it was doubtful to have the fathers name if he was born illegitimate, but they would look.
Cumbria have replied and stated that there are 2 registrations of a Thomas Dennison around that time but neither match the fathers given name,
They have given me a contact name in the archive section, and further to your advice I shall call and ask them if they can do a quick look for a baptism.
As for your other advice, I agree that eliminating the other possibilities of any other Thomas Dennisons is the way to go and ill try that this weekend.
Thanks once again for the suggestions
Chris