Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hi everyone.

I'm not sure whether I am mixing 2 people up here and would welcome your input.

Charles Maddox (1793-1849), watchmaker from Liverpool, had a brother called William (born 1797) and a brother called Robert William (born 1800). Although I have been unable to find Robert William on the 1841 census or in the trade directories, I know he was also a watchmaker as his death certificate of 1842 and the inquest report written up in the Liverpool Mercury give this as his profession and his address as Lionel Street. He died by 'the visitation of God', which I understand was technical speak! Inquest report doesn't mention a wife or family and death reported by the coroner.

Following up on a link previously given on the Forum (the Liverpool Museum's Horological Search facility), I've found a Willam Maddox who was a watchmaker in Highfield Street in 1829 and 1832 and then in Lionel Street (where Robert William subsequently dies) in 1841 and this is supported by the 1841 census. His son - also William - is an apprentice with him.

I've found William Snr's marriage to a Sarah Greaves and the baptism record of young William but he is never referred to as Robert William. 1851 census has Sarah down as a widow and there are several possible death certificates for a William Maddox between 1841 and 1851 but I can't find anything in the parish records so it could be an expensive business to send for all the death certificates!

I'm just wondering if Robert William and the William are in fact the same person and whether the William born 1797 died earlier, especially as he is not mentioned in his mother's will of 1919 although Robert William and her other children are.

Anyone out there able to track down an earlier demise of William or find him and Robert William mentioned as being alive at the same time?

As always, thanks for your help.

Glen

Hi Glen,

The marriages of William Maddock/Mary Ann Hughes 1848 and Jane Maddock/Daniel Gribben 1847, both at St Phillip, on both occasions, William the father was not recorded as deceased. It's always a concern whether the question was asked, however the marriage following Jane/Daniel 1847, the question was asked and that father was recorded as deceased. It could be that William snr died between 1847/48 and the 1851 census.
The 1851 census, Sarah is a publican, 12 Ray St, if this is the Public House, could William have held the licence prior to Sarah, if so, an indication to his death may be obtained by finding out, if and when Sarah took it over.

I hadn't thought to check marriages of William's off-spring, Bertie - a good tip for the future!

However, having checked the deaths again, there is no likely death for a William Maddox in Liverpool between 1847 and 1851 - the latest would be 1846. Hence, I still don't know whether William Snr and Robert William are the same person.

One thing that has come out from this, however, is that the Wiiliam Maddox who reported brother Charles's death in 1849 could not have been one of the brothers - I guess it was probably Wm Jnr. The 1849 death certificate has him living in Rose Hill.

Glen

His daughter Sarah declares William the father was deceased at her wedding, 21 April, 1848.

Thanks, Bert.

Let me take stock:
I know Robert William Maddox was born April 1800 and was a watchmaker (Evidence: parish baptism record and death certificate).
I know he is mentioned by name on his mother's will 1919.
I know he died June 1842, aged 42, in Lionel Street (Evidence: death certificate, newspaper obituary).
No mention in trade directories or on the census.

I know William Maddox was born Nov 1797 (Evidence: parish baptism records).
Not mentioned in 1919 will.
William Maddox, watchcase maker, marries Sarah Greaves 1818 (Evidence: parish records).
1827: Wm Jnr born - father = watchcase maker; address = Highfield St (Evidence: parish records)
Trade directories have William Maddox, watchmaker, at Highfield Street in 1829 and 1832.
1841 census has William Maddox, watchmaker, and son living in Lionel Street.
Dead by 1847 (Evidence: daughter's marriage record).

It is seeming more and more likely that Robert William was known as William.
Do you think I will have to order the death certificates for the 3 William Maddoxes who died 1843-1846 to rule out that one of these was a watchmaker married to Sarah or is there a cheaper way to I can go about this?

Regards,
Glen

It will be cheaper if you strike lucky but needs a bit of hard work. We have a number of links to burials/cemeteries/MI's here http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... =14&t=5739 and some of the sites, Old Mersey Times in particular, has numerous links which should all be checked, you may come across some of the burials which might help.

this is the only Robert William I can find http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html could they have been catholic Robert could be his confirmation name

lds church https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J8QX-Q6Y https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N5G6-RJF

Thanks for your comments, Mary and northmoels.

Like you say, northmoels, apart from the baptism parish record and then his death certificate in 1842, there doesn't seem to be any record of Robert William Maddox. I'm virtually certain there would be nothing in the Catholic records.

I think I'll follow your suggestions, Mary. I'm in no hurry on this one as a result wouldn't really get me any further - it is just one of those puzzling off-shoots that I would like to clarify at some stage - all part of the rich tapestry and all that.

Regards,
Glen

Good luck, it's a bit of a slog, but sometimes worth it, I have come across useful entries amongst all those pagea.

Do you have this burial?

Robert William Maddoy, Lionel Street
Age:42
Burial Date:
1 Jun 1842
Parish:Liverpool, Holy Trinity
Reference Number:283 HOL/4/2

(sent correction to Anc* )

There's another William Maddox age 40 in Lionel Street in 1841, married to Amelia Hookey in 1822.. he is a cordwainer/shoemaker...wonder is connected as he lives in Lionel Street, could he be the 1797 one? HO107 559 21.... just one page back from William the watchmaker..
coincidence maybe?

Hi Simone.
Many thanks for your ideas.

I had seen 'shoemaker' William and originally thought he could well be the 1797 one but I think I followed hoim up on the 1851 census and found he had not been born in Liverpool so decided to rule him out.

Although I had the death certificate for Robert (29 May 1842), I didn't have the burial details so many thanks for that. Where did you fine it? I'm wondering if I can locate the burial records for any of the other William Maddoxes who died 1841-1847 and rule some of them out perhaps by age, occupation or address.

Regards.

Glen

It was on Ancestry Glen.....there were some others at holy trinity when I searched on that particular parish. .. think I saw one I thought may be his mother Margaret... sorry not at computer at the moment to check .

Not sure if these will help but

William Maddox
Gender:Male
Age:33
Birth Date:1809
Death Date:23 Sep 1842
Burial Date:25 Sep 1842
Burial Place:Liverpool, Lancaster, England
FHL Film Number:1595423
Reference ID:it 6 #2457


William Maddocks of Saltney Street
Birth Year:abt 1844
Age:23/12 (23 months)
Burial Date:10 Dec 1845
Parish:Liverpool, St Martin-in-the-Fields
Reference Number:283 MTN/4/1/4

Thanks, Simone.

Your findings mean that the possible death I had for a William Maddox in 1842 is ruled out. Not sure if I'd even noticed the entry for the one who died in 1845!

I've identified other William Maddoxes whose deaths were registered as follows:
Apr-Jun 1843 L'pool 20 338
Apr-Jun 1844 L'pool 20 229
Jul-Sept 1846 W. Derby 20 1093.

Anything you can come up with re: ages, addresses or occupations on these people would be much apreciated. As I've said before - I'm trying to establish whether the death details for Robert William Maddox also apply to the William Maddox, watch maker, mentioned on 1841 census and in trade directories.

You seem to be on a roll! Many thanks.

Glen

do you have the burial for Charles?
from Lancs OPC
Burial: 11 Aug 1849 St John, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Charles Maddox -
Age: 56 yrs
Abode: Sherwood St
Buried by: R. W. Wolseley, Curate
Register: Burials 1849 - 1852, Page 402, Entry 3216
Source: LDS Film 93826

Thanks, Simone. I didn't have his burial details. I got his death certifcate back in 2008 and either didn't know about the Lancs OPC or perhaps it wasn't on-line then.
It's interesting because Chrales died of cholera the same day as he was buried - hence the quick burial. The death certificate says 'cholera of hours' so no hanging round!

The death certifcate gives his abode as: Sheriff St, Everton so I will follow up that discrepancy,
A William Maddox of Rose Hill reported his death and until I started on my Robert William/William puzzle, I had assmed this was Charles's brother. Now I'm thinking it was more likely his nephew (i.e. son who was the watchcase apprentice in Lionel St on the 1841 census).

Again, thanks for your help.

Glen

the discrepency in address could be due to the fact that many sick would go to a local woman who acted like a nurse, tending the sick in her home, delivering babies etc.

re William 1797, I wonder

William Maddox
Age:37
Estimated birth year:abt 1797
Date of Trial:Summer 1834
Trial Year:1834
Location of Trial:Lancashire, England
Sentence:Transportation
7 years
Larceny

Simone

William Maddox convicted of Larceny at Lancashire Quarter Sessions 9th August, 1834. Transported on the Layton(2) to VDL on the 29th August, 1835 from Sheerness arriving 10th December, 1835 at Hobart.

Personal details: 5'4'', age 27, Bricklayer, native place: Chester - assigned to Public Works. Married with two children. Wife and one child died whilst at Chatham.

Also convicted of Larceny on the same day and transported with William Maddox was Thomas Lunt, 5'61/2", age 33, Bricklayer, native place: Chester - assigned to Public Works.

Much more information here: http://www.linc.tas.gov.au/research/bro ... e/convicts

Louis