Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I am new to this site. According to his American naturalization papers, my Grandfather John Joseph Osmond was born in Liverpool England in 1837. He immigrated to the United States and arrived in New York City in 1863. As a substitute, he served in the American Civil war on the Union side. He became American citizen in 1865 and got married to Caroline M. Adley in the same year. He had three children with Caroline. In about 1878, he divorced his wife and moved back to England. There he was working on the Mermaid, when the ship sunk on its way to Venezuela and he died at sea. The British consul wrote in a letter that he had died at sea. Is there any hope I can find any more information about John Joseph Osmond than I know now. I would like to know where he was born, who his parents were, and what religion was he. In the 1880 American census, there is a mariner named Allison Osmond living with Caroline M. Osmond in Portland Maine as a border. I would like to find out how Allison Osmond, a mariner, is related to John Joseph Osmond. I would like to know how I can find this information. What records do I need to search? Thank you John J. Thompson.

Hi John and welcome.

The images below are for the crew, Naturalisation and marriage. Is the naturalisation card the correct one, dates differ slightly from your post?
How/where did you obtain the information for the middle name, Joseph?




Reply
"I thought the middle name of John Osmond was Joseph. But now I am not sure. I could not find any documents showing his middle name was Joseph. The name of one of his son, my grand father, is Joseph John. Maybe I assume John Osmond's middle name was Joseph, the reverse of his son's name"

Hi and welcome to the forum. Can you give any details from the marriage certificate? does it mention his parents on it?

Reply
"Unfortunately, the marriage record does not record the names of John Osmond's parents."

MaryA wrote:Hi and welcome to the forum. Can you give any details from the marriage certificate? does it mention his parents on it?

No parents mentioned on what's available on Anc, what you see is it, apart from the ministers name.

Wondering if there has been a name change along the way? A search for John/Joseph Osmond in Lancashire in the 1841 and 1851 censuses drew a blank, but there are several Ormonds with a birth year around the same time. Outside Lancashire there are several Osmond candidates.

Can you give us the names of his children? Might reflect names of parents.

Reply
"John Osmond had four sons. His oldest son was called John Joseph, my grand father. His other sons names were Edward G., William A. and Alfred Henry."

1870 United States Federal Census
about John Osmond




Name:
John Osmond
Age in 1870:
33
Birth Year:
abt 1837
Birthplace:
England
Home in 1870:
Portland Ward 7, Cumberland, Maine
Race:
White
Age
John Osmond 33
Caroline M Osmond 26
Joseph J Osmond 2


Wife and son born in Maine, sons middle name, John (marriage)

Hello

My great great grandfather, Joseph Osmotherly, had 2 brothers called John (born 1837) and Allinson (born 1849) both of whom were sailors. John and Allinson were both at home in Liverpool in the 1861 census but do not appear in any UK census after that. There is no sign of a marriage or death record for either of them. Allinson does appear on crew lists round Australia up to 1874.

I noticed John Osmond and Allinson Osmond in the US census and wondered if they could be my missing Osmotherly brothers and had changed their names to Osmond. The birth years tie in but other than that I can't find anything concrete to prove this.

There is a divorce record on a Maine genealogy site for John and Caroline in 1879, so it is interesting that she calls herself a widow in 1880. I can't find a death record for John in Maine. However, Find A Grave does have a pic of his and Caroline's headstone on which it states he was lost at sea but doesn't say when.

If anyone can find anything to prove or disprove my Osmond/Osmotherly theory that would be brilliant - it's been bugging me for ages!

Alison

Reply
In 1880 Maine Census, Allison Osmond is listed as a border living with Caroline M. Osmond. the name of one of her sons is William A. Osmond. I believe A. stands for Allison.
Allison Osmond is listed as a sailor. That's all the information I have on Allison Osmond.

Hi Alison,

Unfortunately I can't prove anything yet, live in hope. The naming of John's and Caroline's children appears to be more than coincidental, Joseph John and William Allison, the names all appear one way or another on the 1851 census, not sure where the other son, Alfred Henry fits in, any ideas, perhaps from Caroline's side of the family.

If John the original poster has any more info on John's death aboard the Mermaid, 1880 ish, could help. What was his position/rank aboard the ship? I'm assuming it was John who got his 2nd mates ticket?

Hi Alison,
Re John Osmotherly... Don't know if you have this:

Entry in the Board of Trade Register. It lists vessels he crewed on in 1854 and 1856. Image available.

JOHN Osmotherly
Age: 18
Birth year: 1836
Birth place: Crosby
Birth county: Lancashire
Date range: 1853-1857; Series: BT116; Piece number: 67
Record set: Merchant Navy Seamen

Edit to add:
There are 4 MN entries relating to a William Osmotherly [Osmotherlay] bn abt 1792 in Workington, Cumberland. One gives his birth day as 15th January 1792. And images are available. Any relation?

Just noted that one of the above 4 lists Seamen's Register Ticket Numbers and includes a reference to John Osmotherly of Crosby.

Hi Bertie,
I'm not sure where Alfred Henry's names come from either. John, Joseph, William and Alli(n)son would cover all the Osmotherleys. But there was no Alfred or Henry on the Osmotherley side. Caroline's father was Peter Adley. The US censuses show brothers Peter, Lorenzo and Alfonso - so no Alfred or Henry there either.

Hi Dickiesam,
Yes, that looks like my John Osmotherley. He was actually born in Cumberland, although the family moved to Liverpool when he was a toddler. The "Crosby" may refer to Crosby on Eden which is where some of his siblings were born.

Alison

Caroline M. Osmond and Allison Osmond are listed in the U. S. Maine 1880 census. Because Osmond looks like Osmona, They are listed as Caroline M. Osmona and Allison Osmona.

John Osmond went back to England after he divorced his wife Caroline M. Osmond. He soon died after returning to England. In an application for a pension for her son, Caroline M. Osmond had to prove her ex husband was dead. In a letter from the British Consul, it stated that John Osmond died at sea on a ship called the Mermaid while it was heading for Venezuela. I believed the ship sank at sea also, but now I am not sure. I must look for the letter.

Sorry to have added to individual posts above but replies were given in "Reports" to only the person who answered whereas it is important for all information to be freely available on the thread as it assists others who are helping to research.

From: National Archives, BT99/1323

JOHN OSMOND
Birth year: 1837
Born: LIVERPOOL, England
Vessel name: MERMAID
Capacity: AB
Previous vessel: SAME
Previous vessel year: 1881
From: 15th Aug 1881
Master's name: WILLIAM BUCKLY
Owner's name: E PORTER
Owner's address: SHIP'S BROKER
Owner's town: FLEETWOOD, Lancashire, England
Vessel official number: 70162
Vessel type: Sail, schooner.
Home port: FLEETWOOD
Gross tonnage: 144
Port registry year: 1874

There are 3 more entries with the same date 15th Aug 1881, so I wonder if this is when the vessel was lost?
WILLIAM BUCKLEY - Master; WILLIAM FENTON - OS; JOHN KELLY - AB.
The Mermaid was built at Troon, Ayrshire http://www.clydeships.co.uk/view.php?ref=22647

dickiesam wrote:Wondering if there has been a name change along the way? A search for John/Joseph Osmond in Lancashire in the 1841 and 1851 censuses drew a blank, but there are several Ormonds with a birth year around the same time.

Our poster's next reply
"When I look up records for John Osmond, Ormond often comes up, John Osmond fought in the Civil war. There is an entry for John Osmond and another for John Ormond for the same military unit."

Alison C wrote:Hello

My great great grandfather, Joseph Osmotherly, had 2 brothers called John (born 1837) and Allinson (born 1849) both of whom were sailors. John and Allinson were both at home in Liverpool in the 1861 census but do not appear in any UK census after that. There is no sign of a marriage or death record for either of them. Allinson does appear on crew lists round Australia up to 1874.

I noticed John Osmond and Allinson Osmond in the US census and wondered if they could be my missing Osmotherly brothers and had changed their names to Osmond. The birth years tie in but other than that I can't find anything concrete to prove this.
Reply
In 1880 Maine Census, Allison Osmond is listed as a border living with Caroline M. Osmond. the name of one of her sons is William A. Osmond. I believe A. stands for Allison.
Allison Osmond is listed as a sailor. That's all the information I have on Allison Osmond.

Another reply from our poster
"I made a mistake. I should have written Allinson. Also Allinson is recorded living with Caroline Osmond in the Portland Me city directory for several years afterwards. I have not been able to find out what happen to Allinson Osmond afterwards. His occupation is listed as a mariner."

Still looking for the connection between John Osmond and John Osmotherley!

There are 3 more entries with the same date 15th Aug 1881, so I wonder if this is when the vessel was lost?

Finally found the "Deaths at sea" entry for John Osmond. He is listed (as John Olmond) together with John Kelly and William Fenton as "supposedly drowned" on 16 August 1881.

Alison

I have not been able to find out what happen to Allinson Osmond afterwards. His occupation is listed as a mariner

I have also drawn a complete blank on Allinson Osmond. I wondered if he had returned to Australia but there is no sign of him on Ancestry's Australian records after his time in the US. Not can I find him on any US records. Wonder if he died at sea also? And, if so, where that would be recorded?

Alison

Checked the "Deaths at Sea" index, Allinson as a first name isn't as unusual as you might have thought however, there are no surnames that could even be mistaken for Osmond, sorry, nor in Crew Lists for both UK and Ireland.

Thanks for checking Mary. No doubt Allinson will pop out of the woodwork at some point!

Alison