Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Help needed to track the birth record for my ggrandfather Edward Hodson born in Liverpool as per census for 1911, born in 1859 and 1901 census born in 1861 married to the same wife - Jane who was born 1863 in 1911 census and 1867 in the 1901 census. I believe that I have the correct census as Jane was born in Wrexham on both census. I have their marriage cert dated 13/09/1893 Edward is 32 (born 1861) and Jane is 28 (born 1865). Edwards father is listed as Thomas (deceased) Woodsawyer. Edward was living at 3 Grove Street, Southport at this time and lived in Southport until his death in 1940. I have looked at Ancestry, FMP, Lancashire Online parish records, Family Search and Lancashire BMD. Afraid I have run out of options. I have tried tracking him via the earlier census records but not with too much luck, I need the birth record to be sure. Any ideas and help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Carole

In 1891, he's at 3 Grove St, aged 32, with his parents Thomas (aged 58 from Liverpool) and Jane (aged 69, from Preston).
Piece: 3032
Folio: 24
Page Number: 41


1881: 13 Fisher Rd, Birkdale
Piece: 3745
Folio: 37
Page Number: 37


1871: 19 Windsor Rd, N Meols
Piece: 3873
Folio: 135
Page Number: 26

Where did his parents marry? If his mother was from Preston, perhaps this is the birth

Births Jun 1858
Hodson Edward Preston 8e 406

No Thomas listed with them in 1871, Edward 8 born Ormskirk, as was Henry J 11.
Mary 31 listed as lodger bn Higton as transcribed Lancs.
Could your Thomas 26 yrs in 1861 census bn Lpool have been in the Army as a private in Walmer Kent?

Many thanks for your replies,much appreciated. Karen, I am pleased that the info you found on the census matches what I think but I have a problem with the birth years, how much should I trust this info.
MaryA, I am looking for a birth cert so I can confirm his parents, I think now after Karen came up with same info that the 1881 census is correct so shall have a look for their marriage.
Also MaryA I am a paid up member but have not been able to enter my membership number - 8697. Have advised the Membership Secretary but not heard back.Love to know what I am doing incorrectly.
Tina, Will have a look for Thomas in 1861 census.
Thanks again to you all.

Firstly welcome to the Society and I have fixed your number in your profile

As you are fairly certain that his parents were Thomas and Jane, I would suggest that you contact the GRO, either using the website http://www.gro.gov.uk or by telephone 0300 123 1837 and requesting the birth certificate of Edward Hodson born 1858, but only if the parents names are correct. They should also check a year either side of the date you provide to see if they can find him. If you order via the website you should answer NO to the question "Is the GRO Reference known?" which will enable you to complete this criteria.

If they find the entry correctly they should then issue you with the certificate, if it is wrong they will refund your money.

There appears to be another Thomas and Jane Hodson living in Southport. They are Thomas Hodson and Jane Bailey who married at St Cuthbert's North Meols. Conveniently they had children with unusual names. The North Sefton (which covers the Southport area) records on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk give the mother's maiden name so I was able to ascertain that the above marriage is not the one you want.

Hi there Ed Officer, Having a bit of a blonde moment, not sure if I have the correct couple. Yes I did find the Thomas married to Jane Bailey and have discounted them, is this correct. I believe that Thomas Parents are Samuel and Ellen Clayton. H ve not been able to find Thomas mothers maiden name or the birth records for Edward. So much grief with my ancestors. Carole

If I were you I would try Mary's suggestion in the post above mine.

Finding our Family history is not always easy. Many on here will remember the search for my grandmother. It was eventually solved about 12 years after I began the search!

Hi

this looks like them in 1861? although Thomas a dock labourer at that time... no children at that time
Class: RG 9; Piece: 2651; Folio: 118; Page: 63
Thomas Hodson 44 b Liverpool
Jane Hodson 40 b Preston

Simone x

Good find Simone!

thanks Hilary

Hi Simone, Thanks for your help. Have checked the 1861 census record you found and had a look and the birth dates dont seem to match up, I have Thomas being born in 1837 as per the 1841 and 1851 census, 1833 for 1891 and 1835 for 1881. With regards to the census I have been able to keep track of his father Samuel and mother Ellen, so am fairly sure that I have the correct Thomas. Sameul is living with Thomas in the 1881 cenusus. Shall keep looking something will turn up eventually for the 1861 and 1871 census for Thomas and Jane.
It seems that the census records date of birth are all over the place, I have found this for several of my family,is this normal or could the information be written down incorrectly as some of them were not able to read or write? Have you found anything like this in you research? Once again many thanks.

I think the 1861 censuses Simone found I'd them. The telling factor is Jane born Preston. The couple appear to have great trouble with when they were born

1861
Thomas 44 born 1817
Jane 40 born 1821

1871
Jane 48 born 1823

1881
Thomas 46 born 1835
Jane 52 born 1829

1891
Thomas 58 born 1833
Jane 69 born 1822

1893
Jane's death aged 67 born 1824

I reckon Jane was born about 1822/3 and Thomas around the mid 1830s. Apart from the 1861 Jane is consistently quite a bit older than Thomas.

At that time it was quite common that people weren't that sure of their age and there would have been guesses of their age.

I think Edward was born 1861/2 rather than before 1861.

Found a tree that shows Samuel Hodson married Ellen Clayton 19 October 1835 looking at the actual entry at St Peter it looks to be the correct Samuel as he is a Sawyer.

So it would appear that Thomas was born in about 1837 so Jane was definitely older than him!

Carole wrote:Hi Simone, Thanks for your help. Have checked the 1861 census record you found and had a look and the birth dates dont seem to match up, I have Thomas being born in 1837 as per the 1841 and 1851 census, 1833 for 1891 and 1835 for 1881. With regards to the census I have been able to keep track of his father Samuel and mother Ellen, so am fairly sure that I have the correct Thomas. Sameul is living with Thomas in the 1881 cenusus. Shall keep looking something will turn up eventually for the 1861 and 1871 census for Thomas and Jane.
It seems that the census records date of birth are all over the place, I have found this for several of my family,is this normal or could the information be written down incorrectly as some of them were not able to read or write? Have you found anything like this in you research? Once again many thanks.

I wouldn't worry too much about the difference in birth dates, it's not so unusual that they fluctuate up and down
I have found someone before who was 10 years younger in 1861 than he was in 1851 and then by 1871 he was older again As Hilary said sometimes people weren't so sure of their own age and it may also have been someone else giving he information so they guesstimated! I tend to think like Hilary that the 1861 census is them

Simone x

Thanks Hilary and Simone for your help it is greatly appreciated. I now feel confident that I am on the right track. I have not been able to locate any birth entry for Edward, I shall just move on as he was definitely born and I know who his parents are. Might now have a go at tracking Samuel and Ellen who were born in Shopshire and Staffordshire. Am out of my comfort zone with this one.

MaryA wrote:Firstly welcome to the Society and I have fixed your number in your profile

As you are fairly certain that his parents were Thomas and Jane, I would suggest that you contact the GRO, either using the website http://www.gro.gov.uk or by telephone 0300 123 1837 and requesting the birth certificate of Edward Hodson born 1858, but only if the parents names are correct. They should also check a year either side of the date you provide to see if they can find him. If you order via the website you should answer NO to the question "Is the GRO Reference known?" which will enable you to complete this criteria.

If they find the entry correctly they should then issue you with the certificate, if it is wrong they will refund your money.

You could try as Mary as suggested by ordering via GRO but not putting the ref, just specifying parents for these entries...

Edward Hodson Mar q 1865 West Derby 8b 534

Edward Hodson Jun q 1865 West Derby 8b 460

it's worth a go if you do it that way

Simone x

My gut feeling is that Thomas and Jane weren't married or if they were it wasn't in Liverpool. As Jane appears to be around 15 years older than Thomas perhaps she was already married and she had left the marriage for Thomas.
At the time Edward was born they could have got away without registering his birth but probably had him baptised somewhere it's finding where that is the problem!

Jane appears to have died in the Southport area did Thomas die there too? They are likely to be buried in Duke Street Cemetery Southport.

Education Officer wrote:My gut feeling is that Thomas and Jane weren't married or if they were it wasn't in Liverpool. As Jane appears to be around 15 years older than Thomas perhaps she was already married and she had left the marriage for Thomas.
At the time Edward was born they could have got away without registering his birth but probably had him baptised somewhere it's finding where that is the problem!

yes that's what I think too ... there are a couple of Jane's born Preston living as a married woman in Liverpool in 1851 difficult to track too... also she may have left a hubby in Preston and come to Liverpool


Simone x