Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

It was suggested that the Reachel Howard aged 50, in 1841 census, in the Standish household on Brownlow Hill was the mother of my John Davies Howard.

No GRO ref for her death has come to light. The entry in 1851 death records was that of the daughter of John, not his mother!

I tried a search just with the first name (two different spellings) in the district of Liverpool but nothing similar to "Howard" came to light! I must try and do the same using the West Derby district just in case!

But it does seem to be more difficult to pin down my Liverpool roots, the further I go back, than I had expected!

plimmerian wrote:The entry in 1851 death records was that of the daughter of John, not his mother!

Do you mean the entry for Deaths Jun 1851 Howard Rachel Liverpool 20 359

Unfortunately at that date there are no ages given in the death indexes so obviously it's difficult to be sure, but at least you have the certificate for one family member.

Could you perhaps give us the details from the certificate in case it helps with location etc.

Re:

Reachel Howard aged 50, in 1841 census in the Standish household

Is this the right Howard family in the 1851 census?
HO107 Piece 2181 Folio 377 Page 35
Address: 9 House, 12 Court, Rathbone Street, Liverpool.
John Howard Head 45 1806 Coppersmith - Liverpool
Joanna Howard Wife 38 1813 - France
plus 4 children including.....
Rachel Howard Dtr 1 1850 - Liverpool

If it is the right family, since this John was born about 1806 it is doubtful his mother was born in 1791. Ages of persons over 15 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 0 or 5 in the 1841 census. Not all were though! So it is possible she was actually older as allowing for a 4 year rounding down could give her an age of 54 in 1841.

Where did that Standish information come from and can you quote the census summary page reference for that 1841 entry please?

Hi

John Davis Howard
Birth Date:20 Apr 1806
Birth Place:Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Gender:Male
Event Type:Birth
Father:Thos Howard
Mother:Rachel Howard
Denomination:Particular Baptist
Piece Title:
Piece 0969: Liverpool, Lime Street Chapel formerly in Church Lane (Particular Baptist), 1818-1837

brother William baptised same day, born 16/01/1807

Simone

1841 Brownlow Hill
William Standish 50 Flour? dealer
Mary Standish 55
William Standish 22
Elizebeth Standish 20
Henry Standish 18
Reachel Howard 50

HO107; Piece: 560; Folio: 6; Page: 4; Line: 19;

There is a marriage of a Thomas Howard, Accountant, to a Rachel Davies at St. Peter's on 3rd February 1805.

could this be the Standish marriage

Mary Howard
Gender:Female
Marriage
Event Date:10 Jan 1815
Parish:
Warrington, Lancashire, England
Spouse: William Standish


Their children seem to have been born around the Prescot/ St Helens areas, which would be reasonable for a couple marrying in Warrington, although they are in Liverpool later on

1851
Crown Street, Liverpool
Class: HO107; Piece: 2192; Folio: 292; Page: 7;
Elizth Standish 29 Flour dealer , b Lancashire Sutton (St Helens)
Henry Standish 27 Merchants clerk,b Sutton
Ellen Standish 29 cousin b Whiston
Denny Osullivan 35 visitor
Margt Ellaby 27 serv
Wm Tomphson 26 serv
Bridget Murphy 30 serv

also their son William is born Sutton too and is on the 1851 in Liverpool Class: HO107; Piece: 2186; Folio: 438; Page: 35
and is also a flour dealer.. he is still in Liverpool on later census.


I wonder then if the Racheal you have found on the 1841.. is the same one as born Eccleston on the 1851, and living in Warrington..
HO107; Piece: 2203; Folio: 423; Page: 10;
Racheal Howard 59 b Eccleston
Jane Ashton 20
William Taylor 40

1861 still in Warrington
Class: RG 9; Piece: 2794; Folio: 59; Page: 10

Her probate in 1871 states she was a spinster.

I can't see this Rachel in 1841, excepting the one you have in 1841.

Simone x

Sorry folkes I forgot to tick the notify me option after I posted the new topic!

The details I have came from another researcher of the Howard name many moons ago - I took it as fact then, rather than question it as a possible error.

So I'm sorry I don't have a certificate just word of mouth that the death entry is John's daughter!

From all the research you've provided here, it looks like I've been chasing the wrong lady, a red herring you might say! (Blush)

I realise how easy it is to believe what you're told when you really should confirm through research yourself, I fell into the trap - doh!

Thank you for waking me up to my error but hopefully someone researching that other Howard lady will stumble across the post and make use of the information!

I better go and correct the tree and delete the census info of 1841.

(Blush) (tail between legs) :-/

John Davies Howard married Johanna Stanton on 12 January 1829 at St Paul, Liverpool. She died in 1859.

He married Catherine McKenny on 05 November 1860 at St. Paul, Liverpool. She died in 1903.

John Davies Howard died 05th July 1888 at 129 Duke Street, Liverpool.

His daughter Mary (1841-1901) is my connection via my paternal grandmother and the strongest Liverpool root I have at the moment. The Aldridge line originated from NE England and the Burnett line originated from Scotland, so relying on the Howard line to be true Scouse!

Many thanks!

Letters of admin 30 July 1888 - £114 - sadly wasn't a will! Had hoped it would have told me burial details if it had been a will. Learning all the time. :-/

The family would appear to have been Baptist. The register acts as a register of the children's birth not their baptism as Baptist don't do child baptisms.

It might be worth following John Dabies Howard's siblings to see if that helps in finding out more about the parents.

There was also
William born 16 January 1807

Thomas born 9 June 1808

Mary Breeze born 26 May 1810

George born 1 February 1812

plimmerian wrote:Sorry folkes I forgot to tick the notify me option after I posted the new topic!

So I'm sorry I don't have a certificate just word of mouth that the death entry is John's daughter!

(Blush) (tail between legs) :-/

yes it is his daughter

Rachel Howard
Gender:Female
Age:1
Birth Date:1850
Death Date:21 Apr 1851
Death Place:
Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father:John
Mother:Johannah

Mary Breeze Howard was baptised in 1830

Mary Beng Howard
Baptism Date:6 Jun 1830
Parish:Garston, St Michael
Father's name:Thomas Howard
Mother's name:Rachel Howard


there is a note underneath that says 'this person was 20 years of age and turned from the Baptists to this church'

Simone x

Inspired by your find Simon, I found a marriage of Mary Burge Howard ( her signature says Breeze) at St Philips on 21 July 1835 to a John Harries Seevertson at least that's how the name has been transcribed I think it could be John Harrison But not sure of the surname. His signature looks like Sieveston!

Maybe someone
else can decipher it!

Found a Mary Breeze Howard buried at St Oswald, Old Swan in 1849 -age 36- address as Sefton Square, Toxteth Park!

Is it Sieverton or Sievertson?

yes I saw that and have been trying to decipher the name I've been looking for Sieverston

I see she's down as Harrison so has the surname we can't read been dropped?

Baptist to C of E to Roman Catholic!

Looks like it may be Sievertson, but as a middle name not a surname!

Marriage, Jan 19, 1850, St. Patrick RC
John Sievertson Harrison, Sefton Square
Margaret Jane Sanderson, Liscard
(His parents' residence is given as 'America')

Marriage, Feb 9 1858, St. Anne RC
John Sievertson Harrison, Bamber Street
Margaret Andrews, Scotland Road

Burial, 30 June 1860, St. Oswald
Joannes Sievertson Harrison, age 46, 113 Bamber Street, Liverpool

Many thanks everyone for helping me on the journey and for all the posts - you lot are amazing - I feel such an amateur in comparison! Lol.