Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Hello

I am a new member and I'm looking for any descendants or relatives who may be related to myself and my siblings. My recently deceased Mother was born in Liverpool in 1921 and was placed for adoption by her birth Mother ( my Grandmother ), Annie Kearns . I have a copy of Mum's adoption certificate being registered in the Toxteth area of Liverpool. I am at present in communication with the Liverpool Family Court in trying to discover any more details regarding Annie's background ie; family members, her address at that time , her D.O.B. etc.
Meanwhile I have searched the Liverpool census in 1911 and did find an 'Annie' age 13 living on Royal Street . Her Father listed as John, Mother Elizabeth or 'Lizzie' . An older brother and younger sisters . Of course this is only guesswork , but this 'Annie's' age would certainly coincide with giving berth to a child in 1921. This same 'Annie's death is registered in Liverpool in 1970.
I am wondering if any members could possibly shed light in helping with any information they might have .
Thank you

Hi

Welcome to the forum. Prior to the introduction of the Adoption of Children Act 1926 there was informal adoption or fostering of children was your mother adopted after this date?

http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine. ... after-1927


Blue

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

As you are looking for living people please see some of the suggestions we have collected here http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... =14&t=8154

It would seem to me that you should obtain the death certificate to see who registered the death and whether it might be a relative.

I'm confused about the document you have for your mother. Can you tell us the information that is on it. What information gave you the birth mother's details?


Blue

Hello Blue70
Thank you for your help& interest in my post . The document I have stating Mum's birth Mother's name is on a copy of a 'Form for Application For Birth Certificate (Children Act 1975 ) ' which she sent away for in 1976 when she found out she had been adopted . The certificate reads ; D.O.B. 10.8.21 Name at birth : Margaret Pauline Kearns , Mother's Name & Surname : Annie Kearns
Entry No 214 District Toxteth Park Sub District Toxteth Park South West.

There is also a certificate stating her adoptive parents names ( the people I knew as Nan & Grandad ) with the number of entry , their street address which I knew growing up . Then date of adoption order and description of court which is recorded as 13th. July 1935 The Juvenile Court , Crosshall Street, Liverpool .This has the signature of the officer deputed by registrar Geberal to attest the entry A.B. Garrad .
This is the sum total of all I have to go on right now .

Hi Mary A

Thank you and yes I could send for the death certificate of the lady I think could possibly be 'Annie'. It might be worth a try .

I understand Blue's confusion as we would have assumed the adoption to take place of a child whereas it would seem that she was 14 years old.

There should be a file but you may have to go through the Social Services procedure in order to access it, I believe your first enquiry should be with the Juvenile Court who may still have hold files of this age, or if not should be able to tell you where to enquire.

Hi Again MaryA

Your right and I have sent off to the Family adoption courts in February with all the info I have and my request , even phoned and spoken with them . Response is that they have no records , although one clerk has said that they moved to another building some years ago and some records that were transferred got put in a 'basement ' and she needs her manager to take her to where they are kept but the 'Manager' is always busy ?? Quite frustrating to say the least .

This will be your mother's original birth details. Do you know where "Talbot" fits in? Could Annie be Annie Talbot rather than Kearns and the Kearns be the father's name who agreed to go along to register the birth with Annie?

Birth Index

Name: Margaret P Kearns
Mother's Maiden Surname: Talbot
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1921
Registration district: Toxteth Park
Volume Number: 8b
Page Number: 319

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/


Blue

In the column for mother does it say Annie Kearns formerly Talbot ? The entry in the indexes would suggest that Annie's maiden name was Talbot. I presume there is no father's name given?

To Education Officer and Blue70

Hi Guys

Well this is exciting as I have no clue as to how you retrieved the information for Mum's birth with what could be Annie's maiden name of 'Talbot '. I have no other details as to Annie's identity other than what I previously mentioned .There is no 'Father' listed neither 'Maiden ' name for Annie. Can you tell me how I can view this information ? I tried the Lancashire BMD registry but they have no record . Thank you both again.

You can find the birth index record on Free BMD it's also on Ancestry, Find My Past etc:-

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl


Blue

Hi Blue

Have tried both those sites and no record comes up for Margaret P. Kearns

I've found it okay on Ancestry, I don't have access to FMP but it should be on there too. It should come up on Free BMD using Surname= Kearns, First name= Margaret P, Date range= 1921 (to) 1921, District= Toxteth, Counties= All. This is just the birth index record containing information used to buy the birth certificate from the GRO.

The next step is to get the birth certificate from the GRO to see what it says about her parentage and the address where she was born:-

Birth Index

Name: Margaret P Kearns
Mother's Maiden Surname: Talbot
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1921
Registration district: Toxteth Park
Volume Number: 8b
Page Number: 319

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Always purchase direct from the GRO pay no more than £9.25.


Blue

Hi Again Blue

I did find that same info you saw . I was just searching 'Liverpool' district instead of 'Toxteth ' area so thank you for that . The census shows one possible Annie Talbot who's age would coincide in 1911. However no record of a marriage to 'Kearns ' on BMD or Ancestry and FM Past . I may send for the birth certificate for Margaret P. anyway . As you say it just might be the lead I'm looking for .
Many thanks

I find it a little odd that the birth certificate your mother received appears to have slightly different details to the information in the GRO index. Is there anyway you could possibly post a copy of the birth certificate on the site so we can see it. Only do this if you wish to.

Ladydocka wrote: 'Liverpool' district instead of 'Toxteth ' area

The changes in registration district over the years can be a little confusing, sometimes it's better to search using Lancashire instead of either Liverpool, West Derby or Toxteth and see what turns up.

Hi Hilary
Ed Officer
Yes I will post the copy I have , no worries . I just have to figure out how to do that ha!
'Watch this space ' as they say .

Some information here:-

http://www.forum.liverpool-genealogy.or ... =16&t=9817


Blue

Hello All

I have received some recent positive news from the Adoption clerk of the Liverpool family Court I have been in communication with . She says she has found the 'file and number ' relating to my Mother's deceased Mother's adoption but has to let the Legal Advisor there deal with passing on the information to me . The Legal Advisor is in next Tuesday so I await in anticipation . Fingers crossed all will be revealed and I will have some sound information on my blood Grand Mother Annie .