Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

looking for any info reference Thomas Knibb living at 1 Gwendoline Street, Liverpool about 1936, name connected is Annie Mary Owen from Anglesey who we believe was living as his common law wife at this time. Thomas died 1963. He was a retired caretaker from a school near Gwendoline Street
I am very grateful for any help
Regards Sue

Ronald Vivian Owen
1926 – 1991

Alan Owen
1933 – 1959

David Owen
1935 – 1999

John Owen
1936 –

Hi and welcome to the forum.

A couple of our members has a 1938 Gores directory that may have an entry for Thomas Knibb, I have sent a message asking for a look up for you to check the address.

It would have been unusual for a couple to be common law husband and wife even at that date unless one of them had been previously married, is anything known about that?

The entry for his death in case you wish to order the death certificate is
Deaths Mar 1963
KNIBB THOMAS 73 LIVERPOOL N. 10D 268

so it would seem that he was born approximately 1890, hopefully he might be found on a couple of the censuses. Are there any family stories about the names of his parents?

Have you also checked any military records as he would have been of age to have served in WWI.

I have identified who I believe is him in the three censuses, rather than posting all the information, perhaps you could advise what information you have and what you need.

The householder at 1 Gwendoline Street in the the 1938 directory was Edith May McBride.

Also got a response from Erika as follows, in case it is of any help.

Checked 1938 but no Thomas Knibb listed
There is a Thomas Knibbs rigger at 44 Northfield Road Bootle

At 1 Gwendoline Street is Mrs Edith Mary McBride.

There is a Thomas in 1891 census 6 mnths old. Could he be your man? s/o Herbert coachman 2 Cowl St Everton and Margaret.

Hi everyone and thank you so very much for all your replies - I am very grateful.

I have found his military record - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1114/ ... turnRecord
and I have him in the 1891, 1901 and 1911 Census and yes that is him you have found aged 6months. I also have his death certificate which matches the info you posted. He was living at 1 Gwendoline Street on his death, retired caretaker, informant R.V Owen (step son)

Annie Mary Owen never married. She was born Menai Bridge 20 january 1898 to Thomas and Cathrine. Her mother died prior to 1911. She left home at some point, I believe either just prior to 1914 or shortly after. got on a boat and arrived in Liverpool - to our knowledge.

She had 6 children that we know about, almost certainly to two different men. She lived with Thomas Knibb until his death and he was a very much loved member of the family. The father of the first 2 or 3 children wasn't very good to her (according to family history) so she left with the children. At some point in the 1920's she met and had children to Thomas Knibb. He is named as Thomas Henry Owen on one of the son's marriage cert with an occupation of school caretaker. I believe he was previously married and had children to his wife before they parted.

What I am trying to achieve is to find to the birth father of these children and source this as best I can - I was hoping that the electoral rolls might have found them living together when one of the children were born. I will be ordering their birth certs as soon as I can, to see what info they supply me with.

So obviously they weren't living at 1 Gwendoline Street at that point (thank you for looking it up for me) they must have moved there at a later date. Now I am not sure where to look

Many many thanks again for all your help
Sue

At some point (on his military records) he was living at 44 Great Mersey Street (approx 1915 I believe) - his other address is difficult to read but I think it says Walton Street Kirkdale
In the 11 census, he is working as a Steam Riser for Loco Dept Roly Co. and living at 7 Walton Street

Her other children that I am aware of follow:

Arthur (Tommy) Owen
1919 –

Amy A Owen
1921 – 1990
Sue x

A search of the 1939 Register using the name Thomas Knibb and his birth date if you can get it could show the deceased members of this family in one household with their respective dates of birth.


Blue

Hi thank you

His birth date was 18 September 1890 - Baptized St James the less

Many thanks
Sue

More information here:-

http://www.forum.liverpool-genealogy.or ... 24&t=13040

http://www.hscic.gov.uk/register-service

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/1939register


Blue

Thank you so much for those links - very useful and interesting

Sue

I'm amazed that the army let him go in 1915 on the basis that his engagement had expired.

Possible marriage: Thomas H Knibb and Edith Parr at St Aidan, Kirkdale in 1916 (Lancs BMD)

Thanks for that possible marriage - I may have to buy that cert - just in case

I was also surprised that the army let him go in 1915 - I wonder why ?

Sue

suecrilly wrote:At some point in the 1920's she met and had children to Thomas Knibb. .....

What I am trying to achieve is to find to the birth father of these children and source this as best I can - I was hoping that the electoral rolls might have found them living together when one of the children were born.

So if they met after 1920 and then had children, they are unlikely to be listed on the Electoral Registers in 1938 as only adults over 18 would be on there.

It was to see if both Annie Mary Owen and Thomas Knibb were registered living together when the younger of the children were born in the 1930's

Thank you
Sue x

Hi, I think in 1938, the age of majority was 21 . They would only be on the electoral register a year before that at the earliest.

Annie Mary Owen and Thomas Knibb would be on it though - wouldn't they - they were born in 1898 and 1890 respectively

Thank you for all your help
Sue

suecrilly wrote:
I was also surprised that the army let him go in 1915 - I wonder why ?

Sue

Para 154 x11,
Improper enlistment of a Soldier

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forum ... pic=131200



Para 154 Regulations for the Territorial Force 1908
“When information is obtained of the improper enlistment of a soldier of the Territorial Force in to the regular forces, a report of the fact on A.F.E530 will be sent by the officer commanding the Territorial unit to the officer commanding the regular unit in which the man is supposed to be serving, with a duplicate of his Territorial attestation, and a certificate, as laid down in the King’s regulations, paragraph 530”.

Thank you so much for that - I wasn't aware of those regulations.

Sue

Hello again - could I possibly ask fr your help once again with this family ?

I now have the Birth Cert for David Owen who was born in Dec 1935 - The address was given was 161 Mill Street - I wonder if anyone is able to check the electoral records for that address for me please as to who was living at that address ( I am still trying to find his father who I know lived with the family all of David's youth but he doesn't appear on the birth cert - It is nearly 100% certain to be Thomas Knibb (s) but would be nice to know if he was living with Annie Mary Owen when she gave birth to her son David )

I have contacted The Central Library and asked for their assistance, however as yet I haven't received a reply

Many many thanks once again
Sue