Penrose Street

Post by **seasider66** » 30 Apr 2009 22:30

Does anyone know if Penrose Street still exists? If not, can anyone say where it was and if it was residential property or institutions such as workhouse, hospital etc.,
I have what I think is my father's birth cert but because I'm not sure I tried a search for the address given....31 Penrose Street. Apparently there were only about 10 houses there according to the 1911 census, numbered from 47 onwards

Any ideas would be appreciated please

Lil

Post by **Tina** » 01 May 2009 00:54

Hi Lil
1911 Directory has Penrose St off St Domingo Rd.
Numbers are from 1 to 61 no even numbers.
Regular houses, occupants with assorted jobs.
31 had Charles James Fox miller.

1894 lists Penrose off St Domingo Rd, no listing for the street itself.
On the corner was St Edward's Chapel belonging to St Edward's Catholic College. The next number after the chapel was No. 40 St Domingo Rd.

Cheers

Tina

Post by **seasider66** » 01 May 2009 21:14

Hi Tina,
Many thanks for that info. Seems to prove that the cert I have is nothing to do with my father at all, despite the names of the parents, baby's name and the date of his birth are all identical to my dad

Can you tell me which directory you used please? Also are these directories still available to buy?
Thank you.
Lil

Post by **colette** » 01 May 2009 22:14

Hi what year was dad born and whats his parents names .. the Penrose St might be a Relative of his mums house or a nurse etc..

Regards

Post by **seasider66** » 01 May 2009 23:08

Hi Collette,
My dad was born 19th Nov. 1917 His parents were Herbert Christian and Jane Emily Simpson and he was named after his dad.
I don't think the people I have found are related to me at all really, but at least I can 'kill them off' so to speak

Someone on another forum has pointed me to a photo website and Penrose St. is there....an apparently long street of terraced houses with no frontage and only on one side of the street. It seems they are all gone now sadly

Lil

Post by **jan44** » 01 May 2009 23:37

Hi Lil,

in the 1914 directory at 31 Penrose Street was George Lewis - Labourer.

The directories were available from archive cd books in England, but I think they are only available from Ireland now.

http://www.archivecdbooks.ie type in the search, Liverpool then go to results 21-40.

Jan

Post by **colette** » 01 May 2009 23:55

Hi

what year were Herbert & Jane Emily born and where ?? also have you checked out their sibling to make cure none married a Lewis or a Fox ???

Regards

Post by **Tina** » 02 May 2009 06:19

While you were all in the Land of Nod, I was looking for Herbie's sibs, also parents marriage as
Herbert Christian (surname) to Jane Emily nee Simpson

Here he is
Herbert C Simpson 4th qtr 1917 W Dby maiden BROOKE..

Marriage Jane E BROOKES to Herbert C Simpson
St Augustine's Everton 1905.
There are more births after Herbie but maiden is Brookes so not sure if they are his bros & sisters.

Tina

Post by **colette** » 02 May 2009 12:13

Hi Tina thought i was going mad last night as i couldnt even fond young Herbies birth reg..then thought Jane had to have been married begore as it wasn't adding up.. good going

so Brookes was her maiden name..

regards

Post by **seasider66** » 02 May 2009 19:35

Thanks to everyone who has tried to solve this mystery for me

My grandfather was Herbert Christian Simpson and granny was Jane Emily Horton (according to my cousin) Jane Horton was born either in Aston, Birmingham or Wolverhampton, illegitimate daughter of Harriet. Herbert was born Liverpool as far as I know and he was a French Polisher by profession...no other info about him.
I also found the entry for H.C and J.E. Brooke hence I sent for the birth cert of my dad. However I am now pretty sure it's not the right people. I have contacted my cousin to see if she can shed any light on this, so fingers crossed

Why do our ancestors hide all the details of their lives

Lil

Post by **colette** » 02 May 2009 21:56

Hi

I am a bit confused ..

Herbert Christian when and where did he marry ??? and was his wife called Jane Emily Horton.. who then married ? Simpson ?

Also i cannot see a birth reg for young Herbert.. do you have his birth cert as you had the address 31 Penrose St 1917.

Regards

Post by **seasider66** » 03 May 2009 00:08

Hi Colette,
You're not the only one who's confused

Herbert C. Simpson (snr) m. Jane Emily Horton (date unknown)

Herbert jnr was my dad but I don't have his birth cert as yet. However I do know he was born 19/11/1917 in Liverpool

The birth cert I have with Penrose St. is not him as the mother's name is incorrect on it.

Details on Penrose St Birth cert.....
H.C.Simpson b 19/11/1917 31 Penrose St. Liverpool
Father H.C. Simpson and Jane Emily Simpson formerly Brooke

Amazingly all the details are the same as my father and grandparents except Jane's surname...hence my confusion

I think I need to make more searches for dad's birth cert which must be there somewhere. I can also look for his death cert and see if that helps

Lil

Post by **colette** » 03 May 2009 00:24

Haaaaaaaaaaa no wonder i am getting nowhere i am looking for a Herbert Christian not Simpson haaaaaaa

Regards

Post by **Tina** » 03 May 2009 01:18

Hi Col
Thanks for that, I thought it was just me!!

Hi Seasider
Did he die in Portsmouth?
Death Herbert Christian Simpson
bn 19/11/1917 died May 1996 aged 78yrs.

Tina

Post by **seasider66** » 03 May 2009 09:14

Hi Tina,

The death you have found was my dad....Herbert Christian Simpson jnr. and yes he died in Portsmouth as you say.
Lil

Post by **Tina** » 03 May 2009 10:26

Thanks Lil for reply and I'm sorry about your Dad.
I've been trying to find his Dad, with his father as Herbert C as you said 3 generations had the same first names.
No luck so far.
Possibles for Herbert C snr but no Dad as Herbert.
Are you totally sure about the 3 mens names one after the other?
Thanks dear

Tina

Post by **seasider66** » 03 May 2009 11:04

Hi Tina,

Yes I am sure of the names, the men concerned are my grandfather. my father and my brother. No imagination

Same with my mum's side...her mum was Lilian, she was Lilian and I am Lilian

None of my children are named for either myself or my late hubby

Lil

Post by **colette** » 03 May 2009 12:24

Hiya

Right whats the chances of a Herbrt C Simpson being born on the same day as your DAD with parents names the same ... VERY SLIM I WOULD SAY.

Quote... (according to my cousin) Jane Horton was born either in Aston, Birmingham or Wolverhampton, illegitimate daughter of Harriet.

Where did your cousin get this info that Jane Emily was a HORTON ????

The only possible explanation could be ..Jane Emily was born Brookes maybe her mother was'nt married.. but later on married a Horton..while Jane Emily was till very young so she uses Horton most of her life till she marries and has to revert back to her real name Brookes..

Or Jane Emily was adopted by a Horton family or a Brookes family..

Ask your cousin were she got her information from ????? and what documents she has with Horton on ???

Regards Colette

Post by **colette** » 03 May 2009 12:29

Hi

How many siblings did your dad have ??? Also what year was Herbert Senior born i see one 1879 Liverpool is that him ??? and do you have the 1911 census for him and Jane Emily so we can get her birth year and birth place ??

Regards

Post by **seasider66** » 03 May 2009 19:02

Hello again,

My dad had three sisters.....

Jean b. 1910
Marjorie (Madge) b. 1911
Herbert (my dad) b. 1917
Ivy b. 1926

Jean was sadly killed in WWII during a bombing raid on Liverpool, together with her children (Three I think). My dad died in 1996 and Madge in 2005 and Ivy is still alive though in very poor health now.

Jane Emily was known as Horton, but as her mum was unmarried when she was born I assume she was given the name Horton following the marriage. Harriet was apparently 'forced' into marriage to Harold Horton although he wasn't Jane's father. Harriet also married Jimmy Moran at a later date....and it seems he was the 'love of her life'

I think we've probably got the right person, it's just the name Brooke that's confused the whole issue

My cousin doesn't seem to know what Harriet's maiden name was unfortunately

I haven't looked on the 1911 census for them - not many credits left

The record of birth you found in 1879 could very well be Herbert C Simpson snr ....was that on the 1881 census ?
I've only just started this side of my family and it's proving more of a headache than I expected

Thanks for all your help and suggestions

Lil

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