Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Please view parts 1 to 3 for brief
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z2q22hv#zspssbk

Shining a Northern light on the mystery?
I’ve been learning to speak a little Viking.
Why I hear you ask?
For no good real reasons I thought (I’m no academic) other than it sounding so cool, and making my children laugh.
I had very little knowledge of the Madoc story until only a few days ago. A small amount of Norse language knowledge came first.

“Hei en saga velcom mega saga kin trua tunga!”
(hello and thank you for your story. I believe it to be about my family and spoken in truth!)
Ancestors are talking to me in Norse. The mad thing is that they are making so much sense.

“Ek Madoc Owain en Gruffud Mandan”
A very Close Norse translation??
“I am Axeman son of Owain son of the Wave God Danish men.”
I truly believe they made it backwards and forwards to the America’s hundreds of years before Columbus. The evidence is clear if it is read using old Norse.

In the year 902 the Vikings were outed by a united Ireland leaving a settlement behind that would later become Dublin. Survivors from that uprising sailed and made camps along the coasts of Lancashire, the Wirral and North Wales. There was conflict for generations Including an attempt to take Chester in 910.

Archaeological evidence has only quite recently been found that proved these European travelers made it as far as Canada around 1000 years ago.

Year 1100 sees the birth of Prince Owain ap Gruffud of Wales. He would later become known as Owain the Great (Owain Mawr in Welsh)
Close Norse translations
Maerr = famous
Guff = God
Udr = wave
Gruffud family name = son of wave god.
I believe that is too many coincidences and in my mind proves him to be of Norse descendant, likely with the inherited skills and knowledge.

In Welsh folklaw Madoc is a war wary son of Owain the Great who sailed great oceans and found new lands, returning home again to tell the tale and fetch others. I believe that the story has to be based in truth.

Maddox (son of Madoc in Welsh, the lucky one)
Close Norse translations
Madr or man = man
Ox = axe
Madoc Gruffud = axe man son of Wave God (couldn’t get much more Norse sounding?)
Claims of Madoc travels have been known of and first officially recorded in England during the Elizabethan era.
There are numerous contemporary reports claiming that traces of Welsh language had been found within some native American tribes. Claims were discredited as impossible.
I believe they were there. I believe that the proof is obvious once you know how to read it.
To this day there is a now small native tribe who celebrate the life and achievements of their legendary pale skin leader Madoc from across the great oceans.
Madoc of the Mandan tribe
Norse translations
Man = man/men
Dan = Danish
Madoc Mandan = Axe man son of Danish men

I truly believe that I’ve solved an age old mystery. He was there. It is written through time.
He was not the Celt of Welsh folk tales. His family were also a mix of Danes picking up the Welsh language over generations, men of the sea with the skills to travel the world. I believe they did and when they arrived they called themselves Mandan.
(this post has been copied from the society Facebook page. I've also now shared it on a US history site and looking forward to a response)
Thanks for reading and in advance of any thoughts shared
Jon

http://filsonhistorical.org/the-legend- ... -the-ohio/
This is a US thread
In my opinion it already included much convincing facts and theory.

Feeling somewhat surreal to say the least. Could I really of found such a simple key unlocking a truth completely debunking US excepted writen history?
Officially they refuse to acknowledge the story of Madoc and I believe a plaque marking the place he is said to of landed was removed quite recently.

A very convincing UK article http://ensignmessage.com/articles/the-story-of-madoc/

It's a complicated business this, although there would seem some truth behind your findings.

Is this a debate for us family historians or should some experts in a university or wherever be inclined to get involved and undertake more research? Could it be a subject for a dissertation maybe?

A useful contact about the Viking settlements of north west England is Stephen Harding here's a link to his work:-

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/-sczsteve/


Blue

Thanks for your comments
The more I look back the more proof I find.
I am completely convinced and my latest find could go a long way to confirming for others.
I'm looking forward to academic help to prove or disprove.

Sorry Mary if this wasn't the place to share my claim. I deleted my posts from your Facebook page and hoped to move the discussion to your forum.
Thank you very much again to Blue for the links to the wealth of Stephen Hardings research.
I keep looking and can not prove myself wrong?
The more I look, the more facts I find.
I don't believe so many coincidences could ever be possible.
I do believe the truth has remained written through millenia.
I think its simple, it just took an uneducated descendant (open mind?) trying to speak the language to find the truth.

A neighbouring tribe also claiming to be descended from Madoc are called the 'Siouan Monacan'

Sei = summer pasture
Owen!
Munr = heart /mind /difference
Cunr = wife

I do believe in fate, and that some strange coincidences can always be found wherever you look.
However, I do not believe so many of those sorts of coincidences could of possibly traveled together through time in this case.
They were there

Mary I have a confession that makes me laugh. I just had to Google 'dissertation'!
I knew roughly but did not realise exactly the levels of qualifications achieved at dissertation, or how well educated someone would already need to be researching at that level.
The fact that you give enough credit to my theory for it be seen as worth professional time really means a great deal to me.
Thank you again
(I am regretting deleting the Madoc Facebook posts. If the kind gentleman reads this who added all the quality links about Prince Madoc ancestors, sorry but could you please post them again to this thread. I lost them)

I would have been happy for the Facebook posts to remain, we don't mind the more the merrier opinions, so long as we know there are others responding so any research isn't duplicated.

You may need to ask on Facebook who it was who posted those links as our crew on the forum don't all use Facebook, so may not be the right people to ask.

I am still convincing other people. The chances of this being delusions seem to be fading. I have doubted myself.
There does definitely need to be some professional researching undertaken and presented as a dissertation hopefully.
I hope to be involved? I think these posts in future will give me intellectual ownership of my theory.


Thanks again Mary
I try to stay off Fb or I get hooked

I feel completely overwhelmed by my latest finds and have to share. It's not wild theory either, it's wiki facts?
Maize was first cultivated by Native Americans sometime between the year 1000 and the 13th century ( I believe we can maybe place it a bit more accurately now.)
It is known the Mandan tribe taught a neighbouring nomadic tribe how to settle and farm.
I believe a very likely simple conclusion of huge significance can be achieved given those facts.

It's a strange feeling, guilty even, I believe cultivation (leaving the garden of Eden) started for the Native Americans around 1170, the year they were joined on fertile ground by peace seeking, teaching, Welsh Norse speaking, ex-Vikings.
In my opinion all evidence is pointing towards a likelihood our ancestors from the coasts of North West England and Northern Wales did achieve the journey of legends.

I am aware of the significance of my claim.

They were there. Too many coincidences.

I am seeking academic support

Well done! Keep us posted on your findings.