Kings Liverpool Regiments numbers

[cath]

Both G Uncles listed into the Kings Liverpool Regiment re Charles Ascroft later transferring to RWF very little remains of his Army record to date , but brother J S Ascroft has records, looking at his enlistment number 29379 dated 22 May 1915 , transfers later to RWF , the number is close to Charles Ascroft 29163 would this mean that most likely they both enlisted at the same time. Thanks for any help with this .

[dickiesam]

Would J S Ascroft be this man?

1901: RG13 Piece 3495; Folio 96; Page 26
Address: 49 Sidney Place, West Derby
James Shaw Ascroft Son u/m 25 Shorthand writer & typist - Lpool
and his brother....?
Charles Henry Ascroft Son u/m 19 Corporation Store-keeper - Lpool

[cath]

Yes. Charles Henry Ascroft has posting already on the St Cyprian's Memorial pages . James Shaw Ascroft is the elder Brother I'm trying to find more information if I can regarding when CHA enlisted as the number first issued is close to the number issued to JAS would it mean they both enlisted together about the same time. Thanks .
I have downloaded records for JSA but CHA records or part of them are missing. Both enlisted into the Kings Liverpool but later transferred to the Royal Welsh Fusiliers 25 the Battalion CHA and the 4th Garrison JSA. Thanks for any help and reading this posting

[promenade]

Cath,

I have a fairly extensive database of the KLR and although I do not have primary evidence of an enlistment date for Charles - based on known enlistment dates of men with numbers around Charles and the fact that it is known that his brother enlisted on 22/5/15 I am pretty certain that they enlisted together. The probable reason for the number separation is that Charles was originally posted to a Liverpool Pals Bn (probably 17 or 18 Bn) whereas his brother was posted to 3 (Reserve Bn KLR) - because of his height?

Anyway there are a lot of ifs and buts . . .

You may be interested in the following write up from my database.

Regards Promenade

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James Shaw Ascroft was born in Liverpool. Husband of Mona Florence Ascroft (nee Wilcockson) of 25 Brae St, Kensington, Liverpool. They married in All Saints Church , Princes Rd, Liverpool on 15/6/03 - they had six children - Florence Ascroft b. 25/8/04, Frances Bertha Ascroft b. 5/6/06, Elizabeth Louisa Ascroft b. 9/1/08, Dorothy Amy Ascroft b. 24/2/10, Lilian Maud Ascroft b. 14/7/12, Mona Theodora Ascroft b. 27/4/14. Enlisted Scotland Road, Liverpool 22/5/15. Aged 39 years 6 months at enlistment, address 25 Brae St, Kensington, Liverpool, occupation clerk, height 5' 1", weight 115lbs, with good physical development - however he had defective teeth. Posted to 3 KLR 27/5/15. Transferred to 4 Garrison Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers 12/5/16 as No 46963. To France 6/6/16 (Southampton - Le Havre). Appointed unpaid L/Cpl 12/6/16. promoted Cpl 17/7/16. Medical status regraded to B1. Appointed paid L/Sgt 21/7/17. Severely reprimanded at Le Havre on 22/9/17 for improper conduct i.e on alarm sounding falling in on parade on 20/9/17 improperly dressed. Reverted to Corporal 3/11/17 at Le Havre for not complying with a Part 2 Battalion Order - when in charge of an RC Base Park Guard allowing a sentry to barter with a German POW. On leave to UK 3/11/17 and rejoined Battalion 19/11/17. On leave to UK 25/1/18 to 9/2/18 and rejoined the Battalion the following day. Admitted 2 General Hospital (Le Havre) 19/3/18 (bronchitis), Joined 4 Convalescent Depot 24/3/18. Rejoined unit (Le Havre) 29/3/18. Admitted 2 General Hospital 3/4/18 (pleurisy - mild). Discharged to duty 11/4/18. Joined C Infantry Base Depot (Rouen) 14/5/18. Joined 3 Garrison Base Depot (Etaples) 22/5/18. Joined No 10 Prison for duty (Dunkirk) 13/6/18 and entitled to Military Police Pay. Attached to Military Provost Staff Corps 13/8/18. with new number T.2429. On leave to the UK 19/12/18 to 2/1/19 rejoining unit 6/1/19. Transferred to Concentration Camp at Abbeville 10/2/19, for dispersal. To UK from Dieppe for demobilisation 13/2/19. Transferred to Class Z Army Reserve on demobilisation 14/3/19 - address 25 Brae St. Discharged 31/3/20. Character very good.

Born 11/4/75 and baptised James Shaw Ascroft 5/11/75in Christ Church, Kensington, Liverpool. He was the son of James Ascroft (book keeper) and Ellen Louisa Ascroft of 23 Kemble St, Liverpool. (Liverpool CofE Baptism Records)

James Shaw Ascroft married Mona Florence Wilcockson on 15/6/03 in All Saint's Church, Princes Park, Liverpool. James was aged 28, a clerk, address 49 Sidney Place, Edge Hill, Liverpool, son of James Ascroft (store clerk). Mona was aged 22, her address was 4 Asbridge St, Toxteth Park, Liverpool, daughter of William Wilcockson (custom house officer). (Liverpool CofE Marriages and Banns  Records)

The death of his wife Mona was registered in Liverpool 1Q 1923.

In 1924 he married Lilian Wilkinson in St. Mary The Virgin, West Derby, Liverpool

ASCROFT James Shaw of 12 Selworthy Green Liverpool 16 died 31 December 1961 at Broadgreen Hospital Liverpool 14. Administration Liverpool 12 March to Lillian Ascroft widow. Effects £882 5s. (National Probate Calendar - Index of Wills and Administrations)

His brother Charles Henry Ascroft, who originally enlisted in the KLR was killed with the RWF.

1911 Census
James Shaw Ascroft
Age: 35
Occupation: Commercial Clerk for chemical manufacturer
Address: 25 Brae Street, Liverpool - the dwelling had 5 rooms
Estimated Birth Year: 1875
Born: Liverpool
Spouse's Name: Mona Florence Ascroft 30, b. Liverpool
Florence Ascroft 6, b. Liverpool
Frances Bertha Ascroft 4, b. Liverpool
Elizabeth Louisa Ascroft 3, b. Liverpool
Dorothy Amy Ascroft 1, b. Liverpool
He had been married for 7 years - 4 of his 4 children had survived

1911 Census
James Ascroft
Age: 70
Occupation: retired store assistant for municipal corporation
Address: 96 Empress Rd, Kensington - the dwelling had 5 rooms
Estimated Birth Year: 1841
Birth Place: Liverpool
Spouse's Name: Ellen Louisa Ascroft, 55, b. Liverpool
Charles Henry Ascroft, 29, time keeper for municipal corporation, b. Liverpool
Mary Catherine Ascroft, 27, confectionery worker, b. Liverpool
Ethel Louisa Ascroft, 24, dressmaker, b. Liverpool
Margaret Theodora Ascroft, 21, b. Liverpool
Beatrice Gertude Ascroft, 15, assistant milliner, b. Liverpool
His parents had been married for 36 years - 7 of their 10 children survived.

1901
James Shaw Ascroft
Age: 25
Occupation: shorthand writer and typist
Address: 49 Sidney Place, Edge Hill
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Ascroft, 60, corporation store keeper, b. Liverpool
Mother's Name: Ellen Louisa Ascroft, 45, b. Liverpool
Where born: Liverpool
Charles Henry Ascroft, 19, corporation store keeper, b. Liverpool
Mary Catherine Ascroft 17, confectioner's apprentice, b. Liverpool
Ethel Louisa Ascroft 14, b. Liverpool
Margaret T Ascroft 11, b. Liverpool
Beatrice G Ascroft 5, b. Liverpool

1891 Census
James S Ascroft
Age: 15
Occupation : draughtsman's apprentice
Address: 14 Royston St, Edge Hill, Liverpool
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Ascroft, 50, b. Liverpool
Mother's Name: Ellen L Ascroft, 35, b. Liverpool
Where born: Liverpool
William G Ascroft 14, plumber's apprentice, b. Liverpool
Charles H Ascroft, 9, b. Liverpool
Mary C Ascroft 7, b. Liverpool
Ethel L Ascroft 4, b. Liverpool
Margaret T Ascroft 1, b. Liverpool
George C Shaw 32, maternal uncle, plumber's labourer, b. Liverpool

[cath]

Promenade
Not sure if my first message was posted so I will post again sorry.

Brilliant can't believe you have got all this information, it all fits .
I'm the granddaughter of Mary Catherine.
JSA and CHA being great Uncles. I had downloaded records for JSA but was struggling to read parts how did you manage? I couldn.t understand the concentration camp now I can . Many thanks for your help its very kind of you .

[MaryA]

Wonderful lot of information from your database, thanks a lot Joe.