9384 Pte H Groves MM 1 Scots Guards

[Mark Abbott]

9384 Pte H Groves 1/Scots Guards was born in Liverpool in 1895, the son of Henry and Margaret Groves of Gaerwen Street, Liverpool. He was baptized at the Parish Curch of St Peter, Liverpool on the 2 December 1895. I cannot find him on the 1901 or later census returns.

The announcement of his Military Medal appears in the London Gazette on the 14 January 1918 although I think it was awarded for bravery at the action at the Broembeek 8th to 10th October 1917; 19 MM ribbons were presented on the 29.10.17.by the Scots Guards CO.

Harry was serving with C Company 1st Scots Guards when he was killed on the 27 November 1917. According to the entry on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission certificate, he was "wounded seven times since 1914". His parents address as recorded by the CWGC was 58 Hawkins Street, Kensington, Liverpool.

On 27 November, Sergeant John McAulay, of the 1st Battalion Scots Guards, assumed command of his company after all its officers had become casualties, and under heavy shell and machine-gun fire, the company held and consolidated the company's gained objectives. The Sergeant subsequently reorganised the company and upon noticing a counter-attack developing, he successfully repulsed it by skillfully exploiting machine-guns to his advantage to inflict very heavy casualties on the German attackers. Sergeant McAulay also carried a considerable distance to a safer location, while under heavy fire, the mortally wounded company commander. He performed valiantly in doing this duty, and did not waver, despite being knocked off his feet twice by shell blasts. For his heroic and professional actions, Sergeant McAulay was awarded the Victoria Cross. It was during this fighting that sadly, Harry lost his life.

He has no known grave and his name is recorded on the Cambrai Memorial, Louverval, France.

Does anyone know if a memorial exists/existed in St Peter's Church?

Mark

[Katie]

There was a War Memorial Chapel in St Peter's Church dedicated "To the glory of God , in memory of those who gave their lives in the Great War and in honour of the blessed Apostle St Peter" The design by DL Bridgewater was chosen by Prof Reilly of the School of Architecture. When St Peter's was demolished the furnishings from within were placed in the St Peter's Chapel in St Nicholas which was detroyed in World War 11 and the only item to survive the bombing's was a Chippendale table which was then placed in the St Peter's New Chapel within St Nicholas in 1952. I have a article on St Peter's published in the Liverpool History Society Journal. I will dig it out and have a look and see what it says.

[Mark Abbott]

Katie

Thank you. Do you know when St Peter's was demolished and where it stood?

Regards

Mark

[Katie]

St Peter's closed in 1919 and demolition started in 1924ish. It was on Church Street Liverpool. They demolished it to build Woolworth's. Can you imagine the revenue this City would now be getting in Tourism if they had left that CHurch where it was. It was the seat of the Bishop of Liverpool before they built the Anglican Cathedral. There is a cross on the Pavement to show where it once stood.

[daggers]

The site was Church Street/Church Alley. There are pics in the record office collection, I am pretty sure, both internal and external. Demolition was competed in October 1922.
Katie - bishop, not archbishop.
D

[Katie]

Oops!

[Mark Abbott]

Richard and Katie

Thank you.

Can anyone find him on the census; I'm afraid I can't.

[MaryA]

Can anyone find him on the census; I'm afraid I can't.

I wonder if they are still in Gaerwen Street - it's possible to do a place search on the 1901 census site but it's not finding the street ..... wonder if it's been missed since it still existed up until at least the 1911 census.

[Tina]

Hi Mary
1894 Directory it only lists the street as off Farnworth St between house numbers 80 & 82.
Nothing for parents in 1911 Directory Hawkins St, only 3 houses listed for Gaerwen.
Tina

[Mark Abbott]

Katie and Mary - thank you. Do you know why it was knocked down?

I have been told by a member of another forum that Harry enlisted in Liverpool on the 23.8.14 stating his occupation as a to be a clerk. Apparently, he received a bomb (grenade) wound to wrist 27.9.15.

With the Central Library being closed, does anyone know if Bootle or any other local library has Liverpool papers on micro film; I am in need of a research "fix"!

Mark

[Katie]

I have a entry in my newspaper picture indexes for Private Harry Groves Liverpool Evening Express 27th August 1918

[Hilary]

The newspapers on film are still available at the temporary Liverpool Record Office in the World Museum. Everything that was on film is there.

[Mark Abbott]

Katie and Hilary,

Than you both. I am not sure when I will manage to get down to the museum to check but will do as soon as I can.

Mark

[Mark Abbott]

I have been told that Harry Groves attested at Liverpool on the 23.8.14 stating that he was employed as a clerk.

He received a "bomb" wound to wrist 27.9.15. This was during the battle of Loos and I suspect the "bomb" was infact a grenade.

Mark

[Hilary]

Around 1910ish the family are at 27 Saxon Street Liverpool I think

[Hilary]

This is the family in 1891 7 Gaerwen St
Henry Groves H M 29 corn miller bn Liverpool
Margaret wife 25 bn Leeds
Wm Henry son 7 bn Leeds
Eliza An daur 6 bn Blackburn
Florence M 1 bn Liverpool

he also had siblings Edith 1891, May 1893, Frank 1903

Incidentally his birth is registered as Henry and his baptism entry also as Henry notes his date of birth as 30 October 1895.

[Hilary]

Henry GROVES married Margaret DIXON at a Holbeck Registered Building in 1881 (yorkshirebmd) freebmd shows it as Dec Q 1881 Holbeck vol 9b page 478

[Hilary]

Just wondering if what I found was of any use?

[Mark Abbott]

Hilary

Many thanks for the information and please accept my apologies for not replying promptly; work does get in the way sometimes!

It is interesting that his birth was registered as "Henry" and yet he certainly used "Harry" in the army and that's the name the CWGC record him with. I assume this was to avoid confusion with his father?

When you refer to a "Holbeck Registered Building", what does this infer?

Unfortunately, I have as yet been unable to set aside time to look at the Evening Express for his photo (thanks Katie).

Anything further I discover will be posted.

Again, many thanks

Mark

[Mark Abbott]

Thanks to the kindness of the Scots Guards archavist, I have obtained copies of Harry Groves' service papers. These give further details and I will post these in due course.

The papers confirm he was wounded;-
3 May 1915
27 September 1915
12 April 1916
9 October 1917

Harry appears to have been wounded and then went missing on 27 November 1917 as the papers state that his death was presumed on that date.

His father is also recorded as being "Harry" rather than "Henry" living at 28 Stonehill Street and then 15 Mansell Road Liverpool.