Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

i am a little uncertain if I am using the forum correctly as I tried to post a query last sunday but obviously did not follow the correct proceedure
i have the record no and rank of my great uncle captain william carroll
awarded the MC in 1917 and was killed in action in 1918
i would like to know how to find what he won the medal for
he joined the East yorkshire regiment in dublin
i have tried the london gazette no luck
i visited Liverpool last month and went to the st georges hall exhibition
which was wonderful there I spoke to a gentleman on the Military desk
who was very helpful he gave me a telephone number which unfortunely I have lost. If anyone can help I would be very grateful
regards to all

Hi, I'm sorry your post didn't get on to the messageboard, for some strange reason.

One of our military experts may be able to advise you better than I can, meantime if you have the regiment number we might be able to check for his Service or Pension Records if you need help.

Blue
Officers did not have numbers in the WW1 period. This looks like your man from the CWGC Debt of Honour Register, though the date of death is given as 1917:
Name: CARROLL
Initials: W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Captain
Regiment/Service: East Yorkshire Regiment
Unit Text: 12th Bn.
Date of Death: 03/05/1917
Awards: M C
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: North C. 15.
Cemetery: ALBUERA CEMETERY, BAILLEUL-SIRE-BERTHOULT

I have not yet found a Medal Index Card for this officer, nor any LG entry. Did he have any other names?

D

many thanks for your swift reply
i have checked all the records and also found his name
on the memorial at the back of st james bootle
but his only name is william on all the official records i have looked at

Daggers, forgive my ignorance, would the medal be credited to him as a Captain, or could it have been given to him as a soldier of a rank before he reached Captain?

Would he have a number if he was of a lower rank earlier and could there be service records relating to him then?

I believe I'm in for a lesson here

I have his service record. If you pm me I will let you have details.

He won the MC as the RSM of the 1 Royal Irish Rifles and had previous service in the Boer War, serving as 5710 Pte/Cpl in the 2nd Royal Irish Rifles. He received a QSA bars Orange Free State, Transvaal and Cape Colony and a KSA bars South Africa 1901 and 1902.

He was entitled to a 1914 Star trio and was mid in the LG on 22.6.1915. The LG date for his MC is 23 June 1915 p6125 (no citation). His mic is available on Ancestry.

A brother also served in the Boer War with the Vol Coy of an Irish regiment and served with Liverpool Irish. His brother, T B Carroll lived at one time at 6 Holford Street, Liverpool.

Best wishes

Mark

Mark's answer is much better than any I could have given. The award of a Military Cross was available to junior officers and warrant officers of the army from December 1914. There were many more awards to officers than to WOs.
In recent years the MC has been awarded to all ranks.

D

dagger
your info ties in with what i have
as far as i can find he did have a brother called thomas but not one old enough to serve in the boar war
a sister Charlotte who was my grandmother a sister Mary and another sister who died very young
will keep digging and hope for an answer to my query
many thanks for all your interest he joined the east yorkshire reg in dublin

With Mark's information I can now see that the National Archives lists two medal index cards for W. Carroll - one shows him only as RSM, the other shows his three ranks of private and WO1 in the 1st Bn RIR and 2/Lt in the East Yorks. Ancestry will have only the card listing campaign medals. The other, with the MC, will only be available at the National Archives, costing £2 to download. It should show the MC, but probably little else.
Both cards give his regimental number in the RIR: 5710, which you use in the N.A. search page. Trying again in the LG, I could not find the entry until I used only the number and no other input, finding the award listed in the LG Issue 29202 Supplement dated 23 June 1915, page 15 of 28. No citation there, I'm afraid. If there is a history of the RI Rifles, it may have more. A Dublin newspaper might have a report on the award of the MC, but there is no certainty about the date it would appear.
One reason for not finding the LG entry sooner was that the name Carroll is at the end of a line and hyphenated, so missing out when searched!

An afterthought. When a soldier was commissioned, he was formally discharged from his previous rank etc, then started again as an officer. There would therefore have been two separate sets of documents. The first would have him as a member of the RI Rifles only with no reference to the East Yorks. These MIGHT have survived, and his number might help in the search on Ancestry if you look again. The second set would relate to his service as an officer, and may have been retained at the National Archives - not online. You would have to look at their online guidance notes for how to do this.
D

thank you all for your very useful input i am most grate ful and can now get in touch with my nephew who is also doing some carroll family history
he too will be very pleased thanks again

Blue
There are 16 Carrolls on the Liverpool Town Hall Roll of Honour. None is the man we have been discussing, but there are two from the R. Dublin Fusiliers and another from the R Inniskilling Fusiliers, as well as a mixed bunch of soldiers in other regiments and a solitary Telegraphist from HMS Beagle.
Any use?
D

Richard

His papers do exist and I have a copy.

Blue if you pm me I'll let you have details.

Mark

Hi. Just read the posts above. If anyone is still searching for info on either William or Thomas Carroll feel free to get in touch with me. I am related and have lots of the original info/documents/photographs/medals.