Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

Looking for help to break down my brick wall, please.
I am looking for the Army Pension Record for:
James Henry Harrison who was born c1891
I have him in the Medal Index cards as being in the Liverpool Regiment, Regimental Number: 5457, 267282. It says (7 or 1 Kings Liverpool Regiment)
I also have his Army Service Record where his address is 8 Melbourne Street, Everton which is crossed out and then 3 Sandheys Street, Walton is inserted. I know this is the correct record as 3 Sandheys street is where my father was born in 1919 (and I think it was my grandmothers' mothers home). 8 Melbourne Street was where my grandfather lived on his marriage certificate. He married May Kathleen Davies in Stanley Park Peoples Mission in 1915. On the marriage certificate his father is John Henry Harrison, Ships Officer, deceased, Witnesses are: John Wilson and Jane Murphy. Just a note though - On marriage certificate he is Henry James Harrison age 27 years Engine Fitter.
There is another John Henry Harrison (Wife Ellen Tidy) and a son James Henry Harrison Regimental Number 2068. Army Service Corps. This is not the correct family although family information led me to believe that my grandfather was in the Army Service Corps too.

What I am after is information to enable me to aquire a birth certificate for James Henry Harrison and marriage certificate for John Henry Harrison. I was hoping that the Army Pension Record would help with next of kin, siblings, place of birth etc.
Many thanks
Sheila Davis
new member

If you have the name of James Henry's father you can send for his birth certificate which will show his mother's maiden name. You could say you don't want the mother as Ellen Tidy and see if that works.
There is a family tree on Anc*** which shows James Henry, spouse May Kathleen Davies but his mother is shown as Ellen Tidy which you say is not the right family.
Can't find details of his army pension so far. Not much help I'm afraid!
Barbara

My understanding is that you only got a pension if you were wounded. You are lucky to have found some service records for him as a huge percentage were lost during WW2

Have I got this right? He serves as James Henry Harrison but marries as Henry James.

Do you have him on the 1911 census or 1901 census? Have you his father on any census?

Education Officer wrote:My understanding is that you only got a pension if you were wounded. You are lucky to have found some service records for him as a huge percentage were lost during WW2

Have I got this right? He serves as James Henry Harrison but marries as Henry James.

Do you have him on the 1911 census or 1901 census? Have you his father on any census?

That is correct - his name is Henry James on his marriage certificate. There was some talk of him running away to America instead of enlisting. If the tale is true then he was brought back from America by the military police. Possibly that is why he was attested in 1915. It was kept very quiet by the family. I have found various John Henry's but nothing which convinces me which one is the correct one. I don't even know where John Henry was born. James Henry may have been born after the 1891census was taken. I was very young when he died so I don't know much about him. I don't know his birthplace. I have tried to search Henrys as well as James in the records.

Barbara B wrote:If you have the name of James Henry's father you can send for his birth certificate which will show his mother's maiden name. You could say you don't want the mother as Ellen Tidy and see if that works.
There is a family tree on Anc*** which shows James Henry, spouse May Kathleen Davies but his mother is shown as Ellen Tidy which you say is not the right family.
Can't find details of his army pension so far. Not much help I'm afraid!
Barbara

This may be one of my records which I have not as yet deleted over the weekend. It is difficult to catch all of them as they are linked into so many other records. This was the incorrect family I was tracing until the end of last week. I will go into Ancestry later to try to delete anything I have which is incorrect now.

Conscription didn't begin until 1916 so at the time he joined the Army it woulod have been because he signed up.

Have you tried the local paper for around the time he joined? Many local paper recorded the names, addresses etc of men who had joined up.

You could also try Directories to see if you can find a John Henry Harrison a ship's officer listed.

Barbara's suggestion of ordering the birth certificate using a criteria is not bad, however be aware that there is at least one other James Henry with father John Henry - a butcher, birth in 1893. If you are going to stipulate a criteria you need to mention the father's occupation, you might find the Liverpool Register Office more sympathetic to such a search, although they might take longer.

Thank you for all of your efforts on my research. I think it will be a case of just keep trying to find the most likely one and buying a certificate; as you say though someone in the LRO may have a solution if I telephone or go in person. Maybe electoral rolls which I can find by address or another record. Hopefully something will come on line which will help. Here is to another 3 years of searching for them. I won't give up.

A number of years ago I approached the Liverpool Register Office - remember it's not the Record Office - for a marriage certificate for a lady with quite a common name. There were I think 12 marriages for the same name in the Liverpool area, during the ten year period between censuses. Apart from the area they were living the only criteria I was able to give was the father's name and occupation, which was cordwainer, at least it wasn't a common occupation, similarly your John Henry's is a bit different from say, labourer.

They requested a cheque for the certificate and would check three entries, if it wasn't found they would return the cheque. It sounds a bit daft but to check 12 marriages I had to send four cheques, but yes they did find the marriage and returned three of the cheques.

So give them a ring and ask them if they are able to help, then write with your request, even send them a list of the births by quarter - they don't use the GRO references - so that you know how many will be checked.

Fingers crossed they find your boy. If they don't you may have to think again about whether James has given a truthful answer.

MaryA wrote: Fingers crossed they find your boy. If they don't you may have to think again about whether James has given a truthful answer.

I think there was a lot of embroidery going on at this time. People uplifting their trade status just to make it sound better. During my research I have taken 'Ships Officer' from being anything from Petty Officer in the Navy to a steward on the Irish boats. At 2.00 am this morning I trawled through some of the free Directories online (Kellys, Gores etc) to have a look. I was trying to search by name, occupation and address. I have about 5 leads to check through today.
It took me 3 years to find my grandmother who married James. She was born May Kathleen Davies and her father died at about the time she wsas born. I eventually found her in the 1901 census as Catherine M Malley. Malley was her stepfathers name.
Thank you for your suggestions and I will certainly be chasing those up in the near future. I am hoping to visit the record office within the next month so I may hang on to ask them if there are any records I could look through by address.
Many thanks for you help

Electoral Registers may be a bit of a let down since probably only the head of the household would be listed, and not always.

Trade or street directories might be more frequent, see this list http://forum.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk ... =16&t=6906 for some that our members have in their possession, send a private message if necessary to the person who has the copy you are interested in.

Check up before you go to the Record Office as anything on microfilm will be held at the World Museum, William Brown Street but anything in document form will be held at the Sandhills Satellite. Check before you go.

Thank you that is a good idea.