Abraham’s son John Roberts
1851 census HO107; Piece: 2322; Folio: 8; Page: 9
Bountcliffe, Kiln Yard, Morley, Yorkshire
James Scarth Head M 63 Farmer Morley, Yorkshire
Grace Wife M 50 West Ardsley, Yorkshire
Samuel Son U 19 Stoker Railway Morley, Yorkshire
James Son U 17 Labourer at Coal Pit “ “
Squire Son 14 “ “ “
Joseph Son 12 “ “ “
David Son 10 Errand Boy at Home “ “
John Roberts Son in Law Mar 29 Railway Miner Navie Woolwich, Kent
Emma Roberts daur Mar 21 Morley, Yorkshire
Abraham Roberts Son 1 Hipperholme, Yorkshire
Marriage found on Ancestry - see image below.
John, was married to Emma Scarth on Feb 7, 1848 in St. Peter's Church in Morley, Yorkshire
He was 26 years old, Bachelor, a miner, Father Abraham, a soldier
She was 18, a spinster, Father James, a clothier.
John died in the great coal mining disaster in Morley, Oct. 7, 1872. Newspaper articles give the information that he had three children. He certainly appears to have had two, and maybe three sons. The first, Abraham who may have died in infancy, subsequent to the 1851 census. I can't find the other. The surviving child's (the direct ancestor) name was John Major ROBERTS. As there appear to be no "Major" surnames on the Scarth side of the family, could his grandmother Alice’s maiden name have been “Major”?
Open minded as to whether this could be John in 1841
HO107; Piece: 1328; Book: 6; Civil Parish: Rotherham; County: Yorkshire; Enumeration District: 6; Folio: 18; Page: 2; Line: 1
Musbro Common, Kimberworth, Rotherham, Yorkshire
John Roberts 20 Stone Mason NO
Hannah 19 Y
Ann 6m Y
However I would think it would be John Roberts and Hannah Gill, whose marriage in Q3 1840 Doncaster is on familysearch, his father being Robert Roberts so I don’t think this discounts him in a prior marriage.
Baptisms believed to be John and his brother
Woolwich St Mary Magdalene Woolwich (the church apparently used by the soldiers stationed nearby):
Joseph (born 24 March) baptised 18 Apr 1824 son of Abraham & Alice ROBERTS, artillery barracks, gunner Royal Artillery
John (born 8 Jan) baptised 27 Jan 1822 son of Abraham & Alice ROBERTS, Red Lion Street, gunner Royal Artillery
Entries I have found for possible A Roberts
Regiment 42610 – Royal Artillery, Sappers and Miners
20th-43rd Foot – Non Commissioned Officers and Men Private 77897
Regiment 1690 - Cavalry, Royal Artillery, Royal Engineers, Foot Guards, 1st – 32nd Foot
Below is transcription, wrong image attached to the Ancestry entry.
Name: A Roberts
Campaign or Service: Battle of Waterloo
Service Date: 1815
Service Location: Belgium
Regiment or Unit Name: Machine Gun Corps
Regimental Number: 7814634
National Archives have details of an Abraham Roberts, born Hallington, Sussex who served in the 31st Foot Regiment and was discharged aged 32, but the documents relate to 1803-1819 so I don’t think this would be the one.
Comments re family legends of Wales and stonemason.
Wales had no national-type records of members of stonemasons guilds prior to 1800. She (library? museum? curator) was most kind and offered to look in local books but needed, of course, the area to be narrowed down somewhat. This was not pursued, as this could be a wild goose chase anyway--it's just family lore that the origins were in Wales anyway.
I read that prior to 1800, many Welsh did not yet use surnames. They simply took their father's given name and used it as a last name. (This was one reason that I pursued the DNA, before our last male Roberts of my generation's illness became incapacitating.) I also read that the Irish who joined the military in that era very typically assumed 'Roberts' as their last name--the article implied that they were 'on the run' from the law, if I remember correctly.
Comments re DNA
Family DNA shows a few fairly close matches in Yorkshire, Wales, and Scotland. None that I could see on the map from Ireland, but I haven't checked it recently and will. None of these seem to be Roberts surname though--a few with Reid (which I think is a sept of the Donnachaidh clan, as Roberts is), and a 'Chance' as well. Our Roberts is rather an orphan on the Roberts YDNA site, not matching well with any others of that name.
