Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

This post has been split from the original to keep it on topic and not mixed up with other examples.

Sorry I don't have the answer but it's not the only anomaly the CWGC have made, I too am looking for a reason why they commemorate a WWII soldier as having gone down on a ship and yet he didn't die until two years later.

Could it be that the CWGC commemorate more soldiers than just those who died in service?

Hi Mary,
The CWGC have very specific requirements for commemoration,
Serving military personnel who died between 4th August 1914 to 31st August 1921 were commemorated no matter what the circumstances of their death.

Discharged military personnel who died in this period were only commemorated if it could be proved that the cause of death was directly attributable to military service and they were pretty strict about it too.

The rules for the Merchant Navy and other qualifying civilian organisations like the Red Cross were more complicated and it was possible for Merchant Navy to die though accident or illness whilst on a troop ship or a supply convoy and not be eligible for commemoration.

It's not unknown to have spelling mistakes or the date of death wrong (just ask Kathy!) but to have a soldier listed as going down with a ship when he didn't is very unusual - maybe there was some sort of mix-up with a similarly named man? Have you ever contacted the CWGC about it?

Amanda

alcavtay wrote:Have you ever contacted the CWGC about it?

Trying to do a bit more research before that. I know it seems strange but the headstone is a War Grave one, he merchant navy man died 25/09/1945, CWGC site gives the information - Merchant Navy, S.S. Empire Howard (Greenock) which was actually lost on 16/04/1942, our man was not lost on this ship.

Anyway, this was only as an illustration that they don't always seem to get it 100% accurate, don't get sidetracked, keep this post on course with your David Henry Noble.

Just a few examples of incorrect dates of death


Royal Field Artillery
Bailey
2585
George Arthur
Acting-Bombardier
Egremont
16th August 1916
Killed
Son of Mr. Bailey, Green Lane Egremont
Appears in Rank and File List published 1916
16th September 1916

The above soldier appears in a Casualty list published 16/9/1916. I have Obituary and Roll of honour notices for this Service Man. On CWGC his date of death is recorded as 16th August 1918.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casua ... Y,%20G%20A

King's Liverpool Regiment
Byrne
5420
John
Private
Liverpool
10th August 1916
Died of Wounds
Son of John and Elizabeth Byrne of, of 19, Millvale Street, Liverpool.
Husband of Mrs. Byrne, of 16, Jamieson Street, Wavertree.
Brother of Andrew Byrne Died of wounds
9th August 1917
DATE OF DEATH RECORDED AS 10TH AUGUST 1915
18th September 1916

The above service man appears in a List published 18/8/1916

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casua ... BYRNE,%20J

South Lancashire Regiment Dinsmore
11799
Alexander
Corporal
New Brighton
19th October 1916
Previously reported wounded, now reported killed
Date of Death recorded as being 19th April 1916 on CWGC
25th-September-1917 31/7/16-Echo

South Lancashire Regiment
Dinsmore
11799
Alexander
Corporal
New Brighton
19th April 1916
Previously reported missing, now reported Prisoner of war in Turkish hands
29th November 1917 31/7/16-Echo

Now this poor Soldier is a puzzle hence the 2 different dates of death. His Service records have survived.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &ml_rpos=1

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &ml_rpos=2

SDGW Entry

Name: Alexander Dinsmore
Birth Place: West Derby, Liverpool
Residence: Seacombe, Ches.
Death Date: 19 Oct 1916
Death Location: Mesopotamia
Enlistment Location: Liverpool
Rank: Corporal
Regiment: Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire Regiment)
Battalion: 6th Battalion
Number: 11799
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Asiatic Theatres

His CWGC entry

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casua ... 0ALEXANDER

On his service record he was still in receipt of a Soldiers pay upto 19th October 1916? Confused? I am hence the 2 dates of death.

And I have a good few more. I will be working on these Soldiers who dates of death are incorrect. But one thing at a time with this ongoing project, busy with my Casualty Lists.

One of the men on the St James memorial doesn't actually have a death record, he was lost overboard from the SS Olympic in 1918 but the death was recorded as being his brother. So we have a brother who died but is not recorded other than on a family headstone and a brother who survived and went on to get married and have a family but was recorded as died in 1918!

It's not a CWGC issue though as both brothers were Merchant Navy and the circumstances of death didn't qualify for war grave status.

Amanda

Difficult isn't it, there are so many discrepancies in different ways.

Mary,

The Original CWGC Registers are in the Reading room on the First Floor, CWGC may have made a mistake when they transferred the details to the online version. I will show you where they are to check what is in the Original Volume on Tuesday.

60127
R/C
17th-Mar-1917
James Keeney
32
AB
Royal Naval Reserve
203, Stobcross Street Glasgow Military 5 1747

This Service man is recorded on CWGC as the date of 31st December 1916

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casua ... Y,%20JAMES

Yet he was buried on the 17th March 1917

Death Registered Liverpool March quarter

One to check.

Katie wrote: The Original CWGC Registers are in the Reading room on the First Floor, CWGC may have made a mistake when they transferred the details to the online version. I will show you where they are to check what is in the Original Volume on Tuesday.

Thanks, worthwhile checking isn't it