John James Marr

[Bertieone]

Hi all,
My aim or "your mission should you decide to accept it" is to find John James Marr, his wife and first born in 1901 and John James prior. After 1901 is not a problem for him, his wife or children, his wife I have from birth to grave, just 1901 missing for her and first child.

John James according to age on 1911 census, RG14, Piece22576 and available Army records on Anc was born 1881, Liverpool. Army number, 202665, East Lancs Reg.
His wife, Margaret nee Williams was born 4th Oct, 1882. Liverpool
Child, Edith, bn, 6th Jan, 1900, West Derby, 8b 640.

Marriage was 1899, Sept qtr, Liverpool 8b 80,
John James Marr, plasterer, father, John Marr, plasterer

There appears to be an obvious birth, John James Marr, Barrow F, June qtr 1881, 8e 850a but for now I have dismissed it.

I'm hoping Anc have made an transcription error and the brains trust can find it, I've run out of variables,

Many thanks

[Katie]

According to the Baptism of Amelia Maher daughter of James and Margaret Maher (Nee Williams)
Born October 1901 Baptised Sacred Heart Low Hill the address recorded is 19a Lowndes Street. I carried out a address search and 19 Lowndes Street is recorded, then Number 20. They may have been missed by the Census Guy.

Hope this helps

There are 3 other baptisms at this church and the name is spelt Maher

[simone]

yes all the other 'a' numbers are there aren't they Katie, just not 19a..

Bert, search for John Johnston b 1855 Workington, Cumberland, wife Elinor
RG13; Piece: 3492; Folio: 142; Page: 46.

[Katie]

On the baptisms for the children there is a Margaret Maher as Godmother. Also he may have been born John Maher/Marr and James is his confirmation name.

[Bertieone]

Thanks Katie, Simone,

I should have mentioned (silly me) the baptism, Sacred Heart, for Edith Maher (Marr) Joannis Maher, Margaritae Williams, 1 Dalton St, I'll check out the others, Edith was the only child born pre 1901. 6th Jan 1900.

[Bertieone]

On the baptisms for the children there is a Margaret Maher as Godmother. Also he may have been born John Maher/Marr and James is his confirmation name.

Katie,

He could have been just born John, I have no idea up to now what his mother or siblings are named, their first 2 born are Edith and Emily, I know they are not named after Margarets Mother.I think Maher is the Latin coming in to play, isn't it?

[simone]

Hi Bert

Birth
Sep q 1881
Maher John James
W. Derby
8b 586

[simone]

oh blast!

death

John James Maher
Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1882
Apr-May-Jun 1882
Age at Death: 0
Registration district:
West Derby
Volume: 8b
Page: 413

[Bertieone]

Hi Simone,

PHEW, don't you dare find any eskimo's.

Was going to say, its Marr on his marriage cert and Army records, also 1911,

Amelia might be one of mine but haven't come across her so far, any idea what the scroll is under the address.

[Katie]

Amelia is Latin for Emily Bert (I think)

I'm trying to break down my mega brick wall.

[simone]

I think it is something to do with a marriage
, 'matrim contract corum civil?' 25/2/1923 to Francis Lord son of William Lord
then it says ' matrim sanat in radice' 10 October 1940, in prescence of John and Margaret Fagan,
Carolus (Charles?) Jackson

[simone]

Emily Marr married Francis Lord
Mar q 1923
West Derby 8b 329

[simone]

don't know what went on in 1940.. don't know latin... can only glean that radice is something to do with roots and sanat is healing/curing have they had a to do and then sorted it out then

[Bertieone]

Thanks Katie
you're right, just checked.

Thanks Simone,
so they made a note of Emily's marriage next to her baptism,
What can be read into that?
I kick with the other foot.

[dickiesam]

According to the Baptism of Amelia Maher daughter of James and Margaret Maher (Nee Williams)
Born October 1901 Baptised Sacred Heart Low Hill the address recorded is 19a Lowndes Street. I carried out a address search and 19 Lowndes Street is recorded, then Number 20. They may have been missed by the Census Guy.

Hope this helps

There are 3 other baptisms at this church and the name is spelt Maher

I used almost every variable including no surname at all, just Edith bn Liverpool or Lancs, 1900 +/- 1, with a Margaret or a John in the household, in any county and got zilch. I am beginning to think that 19a was a cellar and, like Katie, think the enumerator may have missed it.

Re:

There appears to be an obvious birth, John James Marr, Barrow F, June qtr 1881, 8e 850a but for now I have dismissed it.

I think you are right to dismiss it. He's at home in Barrow in 1891 with his father James [an engine driver]. RG12 - 3487 - 122 - 49.

[Bertieone]

Simone you answered before I asked

[dickiesam]

Re: matrim sanat in radice?
See http://www.catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/mixed.htm

It's to do with mixed marriages...

Read down to:
16. The local Ordinary is able to give a "sanatio in radice" of a mixed marriage, when the conditions spoken of in number 4 and 5 of these norms have been fulfilled, and provided that the conditions of the law are observed.

[simone]

I've had a go too Brain... got not very far..

did spot a 9 month old John Maher with grandmother Margaret who had an unmarried daughter Margaret.. wondered if dad made up at marriage
RG11; Piece: 3699; Folio: 93; Page: 31

[Bertieone]

Hi DS,

Looks like it has been missed off, 19a not there, Double Drat

[MaryA]

so they made a note of Emily's marriage next to her baptism,
What can be read into that?
I kick with the other foot.

It's not uncommon that an RC marriage is related to the baptism and if you managed to get sight of the marriage register I bet you would find the baptism date noted beside it.