Help with Brown family of Wavertree please

[moonraker]

hello, I am very new to this and from down south! my husband was born in Wavertree. 83 northway in 1936. his father was a George William Frederick Brown lived at this address in 1929 aged 18 when he joined the Royal Welch Fusiliers, (was in the Expeditionary Force) died in 1940. I am unable to find anything regarding the family. I have been trawling through the census. unfortunately the surname is brown. any help? much appreciated. thank you. moonraker. oops! forgot to say, my husbands grandparents were named George Frederick his wife Frances, there were two more son. henry (I think) and John. they also lived at the address stated. again thanks for help in advance.

[Hilary]

Welcome to the forum.

You say George William Brown was living in Wavertree in 1928 could you explain why you know that particular date.

Your husband's birth certificate will give his father's name and the name of his mother including her maiden name. With those 2 names it will be possibole to find the couples marriage and that marriage will show their respective father's names.

Have you any idea when and where George William Brown died as that would be a way into finding his year of birth?

[moonraker]

I have a copy of my husbands fathers enlistment in to Royal Welch Fusiliers. its dated and signed August 1929. that's how I have his fathers name: George Frederick Brown. brothers. John and Henry. (unable to make it out fully).

on my husbands birth certificate his father's name is stated as Cpl George William BROWN and his army number, his mothers name is Ruby Lilian Maidment (she came from Salisbury.Wiltshire). they married in Salisbury 4/12/1935 his father was stationed in Woking, no other address for him. his father's name is stated as George Brown and profession as a Painter. my husband thought his grandfather was a painter on the railway..he was three years old when he and his mother returned to Salisbury, (afther the death of her husband) hope this makes sense.
thanks. trying to trace any information of the grandparents. George and Frances.
(my husband told me he thinks she was half Spanish on her fathers side her father was a padre). that's all I know.

[steviebyday]

George. W. F. brown corporal 4189064 royal welsh fusiliers. KIA 25/05/1940. France/Belgium.

[moonraker]

that's him. how quick you found this, I do have a copy of his grave stone in haversque france. that's how I found out his parents names: George and Frances and am stuck looking for them draw a blank. unable to find any info regarding Northway on any census. I really appreciate any help.

[Hilary]

Do George William's army papers give an actual date of birth and /or place of birth?

[moonraker]

thanks again....
he as 18 years old when he joined up:
date of birth: 29th July 1911. his trade at the time: butchers assistant.
born, Parish of:l Wavertree
Near town of: Liverpool.
County;lancashire.
Both parents as English.

moonraker.

[Hilary]

I think this may be the parents in 1910/11
13 Bowers Buildings Pye Street Wavertree
George F Brown 30 general labourer born Wavertree
Frances E wife 30 bn Ellesmere Port
Jack Howard Brown son 6
Alice Brown daur 3
children bn Ellesmere Port

The couple had been married 7 years

[Hilary]

If the census is the family I think this could be George W Brown's birth registration
West Derby Reg District Sept 1911
Mother's maiden name Howard ( given that jack is Jack Howard)
Vol 8b page 1297

[sharon O'Neill]

Could this be their marriage, rather late!!
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1914
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BROWN George F HOWARD Frances E West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/298/184

[erika]

Have looked in my 1911 and 1914 directories

1911
George Frederick Brown
Newsagent
12 County Road, Walton

1914
George Frederick Brown
17 Spellow Lane


Don't know if they are the same person or not, but there wasn't a GF Brown in Spellow Lane in 1911

[Hilary]

Just found the same one!

George F Brown married Frances E Howard
June Q 1914 West Derby Reg District
Vol 8b page 1043

If they are the couple of the census they wwere a little economical with the truth!!!

[Hilary]

George F Brown appears to die in 1957 in Liverpool South and Frances E in the same reg district in 1969.

[dickiesam]

RE:

Could this be their marriage, rather late!!
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1914
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BROWN George F HOWARD Frances E West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/298/184

Certainly looks like the right marriage. The number of years married in the 1910+1 found by Hilary....

I think this may be the parents in 1910/11
13 Bowers Buildings Pye Street Wavertree
George F Brown 30 general labourer born Wavertree
Frances E wife 30 bn Ellesmere Port
Jack Howard Brown son 6
Alice Brown daur 3
children bn Ellesmere Port
The couple had been married 7 years

Looks like they were implying their oldest child was born in wedlock to save face. Perhaps one of them was already married?

[sharon O'Neill]

Found a Frances E Howard in Mersey St Whitby in 1891 age 11
 RG12; Piece: 2873; Folio: 44; Page: 3

[Hilary]

I've found these 3 other possible siblings
Arthur 1912
Dorothy 1913 although mother's maiden name is Howard her birth registered Prescot rather than West Derby
Frederick H Brown 1914 could be Henry

[moonraker]

thanks to you who are helping me.
oh dear,
just asked my husband, he was sure there were no sisters, just the two brothers, (both killed in the war) no idea what regiment or anything.
looking again at the army enlistment form is written on the side states
Father; George Frederick Brown 83 Northway,Wavertree, Liverpool.
Brother (1/2) John
Brother (Y) Henry or Harry or even Hillary or letter A. the last letter looks like a 'y' unfortunately the'J' for john over writes the first letter of the second name and its not clear. is in ink written over small print on blue/grey paper. have been looking with a magnifying glass to try and work out the first initial.
A long shot do you think the Royal Fusiliers be able to help?
so near so far.
moonraker big thanks.

[dickiesam]

From the 1910+1 census George F Brown is 30 years old giving a birth year abt 1881.
Only 2 such births between 1879 and 1882...
Births Sep 1880: BROWN, George Frederick - W.Derby - 8b - 630.
Births Sep 1881: BROWN, George Frederick - Toxteth Park - 8b - 228

If family lore about him being born in Wavertree is correct then the 1880 birth appears to be the one since West Derby registration district included Wavertree.

[Hilary]

I wouldn't completely dismissthe family we have found as there seem to me to be too many similarities Jack Howard could be John , Frederick H could be Henry Alice and Arthur could have died young and Dorothy may not belong.

You say the brothers died in the War so they lost all their children?

[Bertieone]

I think 1/2 brother John is Jack Howard Brown, born to a previous marriage perhaps.