Catherine Johnston

[geri_hill]

Looking for birth or marriage information on Catherine Johnston b 1847 Liverpool
She married a William Gray b about 1847 maybe Ireland (he was a sailor)

She gave birth to a William Gray b Feb 1882

I found her on the 1901 and 1911 Ireland Census both state she was born in Liverpool

Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you

Geri Hill

[Bertieone]

????


Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
about Cath Johnston

Name:
Cath Johnston
Birth Date:4 May 1847
Baptism Date:16 May 1847
Parish:St Anthony's
Father's Name:Andrew
Mother's Name:Mary

[Bertieone]

Is this the same family?

https://familysearch.org/search/record/ ... ame%3Agray~

[dickiesam]

Re:

I found her on the 1901 and 1911 Ireland Census both state she was born in Liverpool

Please indicate where Catherine Gray is in the 1901 and 1911 Ireland census....
Please give Townland, Street, DED, County and Age?

Re:

She gave birth to a William Gray b Feb 1882

Where was William born?

[geri_hill]

Re:

I found her on the 1901 and 1911 Ireland Census both state she was born in Liverpool

Please indicate where Catherine Gray is in the 1901 and 1911 Ireland census....
Please give Townland, Street, DED, County and Age?

On both the 1901 & 1911 Census, she is living on Southwell Street, Age 54, Dock Ward, County Antrim
I was able to get a lot of information from these census records, but I am not sure if I have the right Catherine Gray.

Re:

She gave birth to a William Gray b Feb 1882

Where was William born?

His Navy Records state he was born in Belfast. I just looked at them. His mum was Catherine and Dad William. The William Gray born to Catherine Johnston and William Gray, Sr is a year later, hence my confusion...... He signed up June 4 for the Royal Navy and his birthday is stated as Feb 7, 1882 I am assuming that the birthdate on his Navy records is incorrect. I have not been able to find a birth record for that date which is another reason I am assuming it is incorrect.

Thank you for your help

[geri_hill]

Is this the same family?

https://familysearch.org/search/record/ ... ame%3Agray~

Thank you, I will start going through those.

[geri_hill]

????


Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
about Cath Johnston

Name:
Cath Johnston
Birth Date:4 May 1847
Baptism Date:16 May 1847
Parish:St Anthony's
Father's Name:Andrew
Mother's Name:Mary

thank you so much, I have not seen that one before

[geri_hill]

Is this the same family?

https://familysearch.org/search/record/ ... ame%3Agray~

I will go through those. I have been on that site, but I am not the best at narrowing down the search yet. Learning curve!

[dickiesam]

RE:

On both the 1901 & 1911 Census, she is living on Southwell Street, Age 54, Dock Ward, County Antrim
I was able to get a lot of information from these census records, but I am not sure if I have the right Catherine Gray.

I see on both the 1901 and 1911 Catherine's daughter Sarah Jane gives her age as 33, which suggests either 1868 or 1878 as a YoB. In relation to the other children Matthew [aged 14] and Thomas [aged 11] I would assume she meant 23 in 1901? However, if she was really 33 in 1901 and 43 in 1911, it is possible Catherine was a widow when she married William Gray which may be why we haven't found it yet.

Would be worth trying to find Sarah Jane Gray's birth abt 1878. Sarah married a Wilson abt 1908 but I haven't found the Wilson bit yet...

Marriage: Sarah Jane Gray
Event Date: Jan - Mar 1908
Event Place: Belfast, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1908
Registration District: Belfast
Volume Number: 1; Page Number: 318

This is the birth of her first child...
Birth: Catherine Gray Wilson
Event Place: Belfast, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Jul - Sep 1908
Registration District: Belfast
Volume Number: 1; Page Number: 179

[geri_hill]

RE:

On both the 1901 & 1911 Census, she is living on Southwell Street, Age 54, Dock Ward, County Antrim
I was able to get a lot of information from these census records, but I am not sure if I have the right Catherine Gray.

I see on both the 1901 and 1911 Catherine's daughter Sarah Jane gives her age as 33, which suggests either 1868 or 1878 as a YoB. In relation to the other children Matthew [aged 14] and Thomas [aged 11] I would assume she meant 23 in 1901? However, if she was really 33 in 1901 and 43 in 1911, it is possible Catherine was a widow when she married William Gray which may be why we haven't found it yet.

Would be worth trying to find Sarah Jane Gray's birth abt 1878 as that could put a sort of time frame for her marriage. Sarah married a Wilson abt 1908 but I haven't found the Wilson bit yet...

Marriage: Sarah Jane Gray
Event Date: Jan - Mar 1908
Event Place: Belfast, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1908
Registration District: Belfast
Volume Number: 1; Page Number: 318

This is the birth of her first child...
Birth: Catherine Gray Wilson
Event Place: Belfast, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Jul - Sep 1908
Registration District: Belfast
Volume Number: 1; Page Number: 179

Wow, I never noticed that on the Census. It would appear the 1911 age is correct as I have her death record which states she died 1943 age 63.

I also have a birth record of an Annie Gray born Jan 1875, dad William Gray, mom Catherine Johnston.

I am thinking it was a second marriage and I cannot find it because it is registered under William Gray and Catherine.....(name unknown) Would she have used her maiden name or married name for a second marriage?

[dickiesam]

From Ancestry... this is probably the other half of Sarah Jane's marriage to a Wilson...
On the same register page Sarah Jane Gray and William Wilson [the only Wilson]

[geri_hill]

From Ancestry... this is probably the other half of Sarah Jane's marriage to a Wilson...
On the same register page Sarah Jane Gray and William Wilson [the only Wilson]

Thanks I just got it from Ancestry, and it is correct. Marriage 1908

[dickiesam]

I am thinking it was a second marriage and I cannot find it because it is registered under William Gray and Catherine.....(name unknown) Would she have used her maiden name or married name for a second marriage?

Normally she would have used her previous married name in the second marriage. Subsequent birth certs should show in Column 5 "current name, late previous married surname formerly birth name. One of mine reads "Harriett Emery, late Dunne, formerly White".

If William was a seaman and from Belfast, I think he married Catherine in Liverpool and took her to Belfast. Between 1870 and 1880 there are only 2 marriages where a William Gray could have married a Catherine...

Marriages Dec 1872 - Liverpool - 8b - 445.
GRANT, Catherine could have married GRAY, William.

Marriages Jun 1878 - W. Derby - 8b - 551
BROOKFIELD, Catherine or Jones, Catherine could have married GRAY, William

[geri_hill]

I am thinking it was a second marriage and I cannot find it because it is registered under William Gray and Catherine.....(name unknown) Would she have used her maiden name or married name for a second marriage?

Normally she would have used her previous married name in the second marriage. Subsequent birth certs should show in Column 5 "current name, late previous married surname formerly birth name. One of mine reads "Harriett Emery, late Dunne, formerly White".

Very helpful, thank you

[Bertieone]

I am thinking it was a second marriage and I cannot find it because it is registered under William Gray and Catherine.....(name unknown) Would she have used her maiden name or married name for a second marriage?

Normally she would have used her previous married name in the second marriage. Subsequent birth certs should show in Column 5 "current name, late previous married surname formerly birth name. One of mine reads "Harriett Emery, late Dunne, formerly White".

If William was a seaman and from Belfast, I think he married Catherine in Liverpool and took her to Belfast. Between 1870 and 1880 there are only 2 marriages where a William Gray could have married a Catherine...

Marriages Dec 1872 - Liverpool - 8b - 445.
GRANT, Catherine could have married GRAY, William.

Marriages Jun 1878 - W. Derby - 8b - 551
BROOKFIELD, Catherine or Jones, Catherine could have married GRAY, William

The 1872 William Gray marriage was with Margaret Walker,
1878, William Gray, Carter, Catherine Jones, spinster, Fathers, Joseph Jones, John Gray.

[dickiesam]

Thanks for looking up those marriages Bert. Neither fit with my thought, so on we go...

Geri, re:

Looking for birth or marriage information on Catherine Johnston b 1847 Liverpool
She married a William Gray b about 1847 maybe Ireland (he was a sailor)

Where did you get Catherine's maiden name from? If it was the birth of a child William in 1882, it would be worth finding the birth of one the other 3 children shown in the 1901 to confirm you have the right Catherine Gray. And where is that child in 1901? And when did the father, William, die?

[Bertieone]

The son Mathew appears to be this one,

Ireland Civil Reg,
Mathew James Gray,
Sept Qtr, 1886,
Belfast,
Vol 1, Page 200.

Also picked him up on a ship in 1921, travelling to Canada aboard the Canadian Trapper.
Declares he has no reason for going to Canada and doesn't intend staying.
Occupation Ships Cook, 35 years old.
Nearest relative, Mother, Catherine Gray, 10 Southwell St, Belfast.
Southwell St, 1911 Irish census.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC7T-J1X

[dickiesam]

The son Mathew appears to be this one,

Ireland Civil Reg,
Mathew James Gray,
Sept Qtr, 1886,
Belfast,
Vol 1, Page 200.

Also picked him up on a ship in 1921, travelling to Canada aboard the Canadian Trapper.
Declares he has no reason for going to Canada and doesn't intend staying.
Occupation Ships Cook, 35 years old.
Nearest relative, Mother, Catherine Gray, 10 Southwell St, Belfast.
Southwell St, 1911 Irish census.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC7T-J1X

Excellent eyes this morning Bert. Good finds!

Geri, don't know whether you have bought certs from the Irish GRO before.... http://www.groireland.ie/ but you cannot pay online yet. You have to download the relevant application form and either fax or post it back to them. However the good thing is it will only cost you 6 Euro [about £4.25] if you specify a photocopy of the entry instead of a full 'certified' cert costing at least 2x as much. Only difference between them is the photocopy has no legal standing but it is ideal for family genealogy.

[dickiesam]

Thinking outside the box..... What if Sarah Jane Gray was born Johnston?

Births Mar 1877: JOHNSTON, Sarah Jane - W. Derby - 8b - 398
Births Jun 1878: Johnston, Sarah Jane - W. Derby - 8b - 426.

If she was taken to Belfast as an infant she may well have thought that is where she was born. If her mother's name and only the year 1878 [no Volume or Page numbers] was specified on the GRO birth cert application and it didn't match either birth the GRO would refund the fee in full.

Or could you get lucky and find a matching baptism in Liverpool? I don't think she is the 1878 birth because of this in 1881:
RG11 - Piece: 3681 - Folio: 115 - Page: 35
Address: 60 Arlington St, Kirkdale, Lancashire
JOHNSTON, John - Head - Married - 27 - Engine Maker - Ireland
JOHNSTON, Betsey - Wife - 27 - Liverpool, Lancashire.
JOHNSTON, Sarah Jane - Dtr - 3 - Liverpool, Lancashire.

[Bertieone]

The above baptisms don't look promising DS,
Geri going for Mathew James birth cert would be the best bet for progress me thinks.