Charter Street on 1851 Census

[Glynn]

Hi All,

One of my Irish ancestors Patrick May b 1816 Ireland, is living at 21 court 4R Charter Street, Vauxhall, Liverpool with his wife Ellen (aged 35) and two children Catherine May aged 6 and James aged 3. Two things really 1. Has anyone got a map to show me where about's Charter Street was in 1851 and 2. What does the 4R mean?

Many thanks

Glynn

[Blue70]

Hi

Welcome to the forum. Here is a link to a map there is also a zoom out facility to view a bigger map:-

http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co. ... az/L11.htm


Blue

[MaryA]

Usually the address is House, but in this case I notice that he has used initials such as R or L. I'm suspecting that it will be R=rear and L=lower.

[Glynn]

Thanks you both for your help and comments.

The read & Lower is a great answer and does seem to fit. I thought it could have been 4th house on the Right or 1st house on the left, but what would i know. Whilst i have your attention, on the 1861 Census Ellen is listed as a widow which means that Patrick had died. Ellen still lives in the same house, but Catherine has been sent to relatives as their housekeeper but James is nowhere to bee seen on any following census's until he re appears on the 1881 living in Sheffield. Any ideas why this should be?

Regards

[dickiesam]

Hi,
Wondering if, and why, you have discounted these James Mays in the 1871 census.
MAY, James 1848 23 Prescot, Lancashire
MAY, James 1850 21 Wigan, Lancashire
MAY, James 1850 21 Bolton, Lancashire
MAY, James 1846 25 Auckland, Durham

I know 2 of the above are married with a child but have you followed them up into 1881?

It is apparent from the 1881 census, RG11 Piece: 4621 Folio: 110 Page: 45
Address: 17 Adelphi St, Addysfields, Nether Hallam, Yorkshire (West riding), that:
James May married Mary Dunn [widow]....
Registration district: Sheffield, Yorkshire
Year of registration: 1875; Sep qtr
Volume no: 9C; Page no: 695

So he was probably in Sheffield a couple of years earlier. Might be worth getting the marriage cert to establish his 'condition', bachelor or widower. As to where James was in 1861 I would hazard a guess he was with relatives in Ireland, where he may have still been in 1871.

[Glynn]

Hi,

I believe that James May was in Sheffield in or around the 1871 Census as he married Mary in 1875 and i have the marriage certificate. The James May's on the 1871 Census are not discounted, but, it is difficult to work out who is who. The 81 shows James living at 17 Adelphi Street as you correctly say.,

Your comment that James might have been in Ireland is a possibility, but how do i check this with no Census records surviving? His sister Catherine however was living with relatives in Lancashire at this time without James so a possibility.

Regards

[dickiesam]

Re:

I believe that James May was in Sheffield in or around the 1871 Census as he married Mary in 1875 and i have the marriage certificate.

Was James a bachelor or widower on his marriage cert? You have verified this is your James by matching the father's name and occupation?

Re:

Your comment that James might have been in Ireland is a possibility, but how do i check this with no Census records surviving?

Unfortunately there is no way James' presence in Ireland can be verified. If he isn't found in England or Wales, it has to remain a possible explanation for his absence. There are no records of travel between Ireland and the 'mainland' of the UK, because Ireland was at that time part of the UK. Going to, or coming from, Ireland was only a bit longer than taking the ferry across the Mersey from Pierhead to Woodside.

[Glynn]

James was a bachelor

[dickiesam]

Sorry, may seem a daft question.... but you have verified this is your James by matching the father's name and occupation?

[Glynn]

Yes i have

[dickiesam]

Re the 4 James Mays in 1871...

MAY, James 1848 23 Prescot, Lancashire>>> Can probably be ruled out since James was a bachelor when he married.

MAY, James 1850 21 Wigan, Lancashire>>> Unmarried, coal-miner's labourer, RG10 - 3898 - 135 - 10, is a possible... but impossible to be sure.

MAY, James 1850 21 Bolton, Lancashire>>> Can probably be ruled out because he is still in Little Lever, Bolton, in 1881 and he is now married. RG11 - 3847 - 62 - 7.

MAY, James 1846 25 Auckland, Durham>>> Can probably be ruled out since James was a bachelor when he married.

In view of the above I would tend to believe the probability is that James was in Ireland until some time after the 1871 census.

[Glynn]

Thank you all for your help it has been most useful. I will keep on looking, right Toxteth Records now

[Blue70]

James may have gone to sea as a boy that would explain him being missing from the census records.


Blue

[Glynn]

Are there such records to search ?

[Blue70]

Find My Past has merchant seaman and military records. DS might be able to suggest whether this would be worthwhile or not as he has a lot of experience of these records. At such a date there's probably not enough information on these records to identify for definite someone with a name like James May.


Blue

[dickiesam]

Glynn,
There are no Merchant Navy records extant that match James May. There are over 50 J and James Mays in the Army Pensioners lists. None of them have a date of birth or age indexed but none of them has a discharge date that would put him in the frame for your man.