Shepherd/Carter Family Tree

[dickiesam]

Thanks for the update Allan. Pleased to hear you are making such great progress.

[allanpshepherd123]

Hi to all

Some great progress from the 04/02/1833 marriage of Ralph Shepherd/Sheppard to Sarah Collins/Collings to present. In contact with two relatives with the possibility of two more.

Something I have tried to do but failed is to find the parents of my gt gt gf Ralph Shepherd/Sheppard born 1814 via online parish clerks etc. Can I/do I visit St Mary's in Prestwich for copy of marriage or can anyone offer further help/information.

Thanking you in anticipation.

Best Regards
Allan

[Bertieone]

Hi Allan,
info here,

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Pr ... Mary.shtml

[Hilary]

Before civil registration began in 1837 the marriage entry did not give any parents 's names.

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Hilary and Bert

Thank you for the link and information, I have been on the website but cannot find anything relevant!! I will telephone St Mary's tomorrow morning to see if they can help.

Best Regards
Allan

[allanpshepherd123]

Phoned the number given on the St Mary's website but said does not exist!

Been on OPC and found baptism for Sarah Colling 19/07/1812 born 31/04/1812 which gives her parents as James and Betty Colling. Cannot find a baptism for Ralph Shepherd/Sheppard etc, is it a case of him not being baptised or can anyone suggest an alternative route?

Best Regrds
Allan

[MaryA]

Personally I would contact a local Family History Society with two questions, firstly are they able to assist and secondly do they have any CD's available for Prestwich, I think you are more interested in the Manchester area than Liverpool in this particular quest and they will be more knowledgeable about the churches and also the availability of records. There is a forums that might be helpful http://manchesterfamilyhist.proboards.com/

[Hilary]

The actual marriage entry is shown on Ancestry. Sarah is said to be of Oldham.

Incidentally if you look back to page 1 of this post there was a link posted to the actual image back in August.

I would investigate the Ralph christened in Rochdale at about the right time. If you don't have Ancestry your local library will have it.

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello Mary and Hilary

Thank you for the reply, I have gone over and over all the postings and seen their marriage but no baptism.

Just put all the information into OPC with + or - 5 years and bingo Ralph born 02/03/1811!!!!!!

I have been in touch with Manchester and Salford Family History Forum to see if they can also help.

Thank you so much, will soldier on as they say.

Best Regards
Allan

[Hilary]

I was saying the marriage had already been posted but I was retelling you that the actual image was on Ancestry.

I think the Rochdale Ralph may not be yours as he seems to be living in the 1851 census.

Do the children of your Ralph perhaps give you a clue to Ralph's father 's name?

[Bertieone]

Here,

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 1469362432

Same on Anc

[Bertieone]

1841 census

HO107 Piece586 Book7

Name:
Ralph Shepard
Age:
28
Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1813
Gender:
Male
Where born:
Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:
Salford
Hundred:
Salford
County/Island:
Lancashire
Country:
England
Street Address:
Occupation: Porter?
Registration District:
Salford Sub-registration District:
Regent Road
Household Members:

Ralph Shepard 28
Sarah Shepard 30
Ann Shepard 9
Mary Shepard 5
William Shepard 3
Georg Shepard 1

[allanpshepherd123]

Hi Bert

I already have the details of the 1841 census showing Ralph's year of birth "about" 1813. Thank you.

Found a Ralph Shepherd baptised 02/03/1811 at St Chad the son of Robert Shepherd and his wife Elizabeth, his wife deceased. Address shown as Yorkshire Street. Also found under burial Betty Shepherd 04/04/1811 St Chad wife of Robert Shepherd Jnr, address shown as Yorkshire Street. Also found a Robert Shepherd who married Elizabeth Roberts 29/01/1817 at St Chad, his address shown as Yorkshire Street. Coincidence? No mention of widower. Could his first wife (nee unknown) have died after childbirth with Ralph and he remarried six years later?

Hello Hilary

Non of Ralph's children (Ann, Mary, William, George, Ralph and Sarah) carry Robert or Elizabeth (his possible parents) but have a Ralph and Sarah named after him and Sarah Owens!!

Best Regards
Allan

[Hilary]

Ralph born in Rochdale is living in the 1851.

Your Ralph is with Sarah then so your Ralph is not the one born in Rochdale I don't think.

[Bertieone]

It seems to me that Ralph Shepherd bn 1813 ish was born in Liverpool, he has declared that on the 1851 census, its followed by lazy enumeration of the family.
1841 has the family living in Salford, the baptisms for the 4 children on the 1841 can be found on LDS (very Likely) all baptised Manchester.
I'd be very surprised if a least a couple of children on the 1841 are not named after their grandparents, if not all 4.

This might be worth looking in to,
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JMDD-Q4H

[allanpshepherd123]

I have looked at the "Family Search" link and the Sarah Collings/Collins whose parents are William and Mary Collings/Collins shown married my Gt Gt Gf Ralph Shepherd February 1833 at St Mary the Virgin Prestwich and I have all the details about their children. I understand the notation about children "inheriting" their grandparents/great grandparents names and this being a possible clue to who they are.

I understand the Ralph Shepherd born Rochdale could not be my Ralph since the only death for a Ralph Shepherd is on FreeBMD March qtr 1860 Rochdale and my Ralph appears on the 1861 census. I cannot find on any of the sites a birth/baptism/christening or death for any other Ralph Shepherd in either Manchester or Liverpool (both classed as Lancashire) for whatever reason!

I am well and truely stumped to find the origins of my Gt Gt Gf Ralph Shepherd (with several variations of spelling) born sometime between 1811 and 1814 in Lancashire.

Any other relevant information would therefore be gratefully appreciated.

Best Regards
Allan

[allanpshepherd123]

Help!! I seem to have exhausted my search for Ralph's (born 1813ish) parents even though he is said to be born in Liverpool and I cannot find any actual written record of his birth other than census which could/does contain porkies. I have looked at all the information so far shared by Mary A, Hilary, Bertieone and dickiesam etc.

Taking on board what Bertieone said about children being named after their grandparents I have found a Ralph Shepherd christened 18/04/1813 Bradfield in Yorkshire to George and Ann Shepherd nee Wormald..George Shepherd married Ann Wormald 06/03/1797 in Pontefract Yorkshire. Am I going further off course?

Best Regards
Allan

[Bertieone]

Perhaps what you seek is only going to be found off line, many eyes would have looked at this, so, visiting certain establishments may be more rewarding.

On the naming of the children after grandparents sketch, how confident are you on the Colling side of things?

Are there any other indications in the family that Yorkshire is the place to look?

[allanpshepherd123]

Hello bertieone

Many thanks for the lateral thinking, very much appreciated. I understand the bit about visiting certain establishments but I thought that I could save a lot of footwork by using local resources online.

Now that you mention it I am not absolutely sure of the Colling side of things!! I contacted a cousin Ralph S Shepherd that I found in Canada and he kindly linked me into his family tree on a Google spread sheet which shown Ralph born 1843 married Catherine Owens in 1873. Ralphs parents were shown as Ralph Shepherd/Sarah Collins with all dates/places unknown.That is as far back as it goes. I have sent him an email to see if he can throw any more light on the subject and asked where his information is from.

In the same family tree is another cousin line (Francis Joseph Shepherd/Frances Mary Eugene Mattocks) that I have been in touch with also who originally gave me the Canadian link.

What I have from Lancashire OPC is a Ralph Shepherd (my great grandfather) who was christened 04/06/1843 in St Phillips Salford Manchester. He is shown as the child of Ralph Shepherd and Sarah with no surname. Family Search shows the same information.

Checking FreeBMD for that name and place I have found a possible match GRO reference Births Mar qtr 1843 Shepherd Ralph Salford 20 814.

I think the best thing for me to do is wait to hear from Ralph in Canada and then apply for the birth certificate of Ralph born 1843 in Salford which I understand will give me his parents names.

There are no indications regarding the George and Ann in Yorkshire it is just that I though of looking elsewhere since it appears that Ralph and Sarah had a George and Ann!! Thought that the childrens names would give a clue as to our Gt Gt Gt Grandparents!!

Best Regards
Allan

[MaryA]

in either Manchester or Liverpool (both classed as Lancashire) for whatever reason!

I don't understand your comment above - Merseyside didn't come into existence until 1973 I think it was, or thereabouts anyway, prior to that all areas between the Mersey, right across to Manchester, including where you live, was indeed Lancashire.

I do agree with Bertie that perhaps you research ONLINE has come to a temporary end and a visit to either Manchester and/or Liverpool Record Office will be what is needed to access archives that have not been transcribed and included in online databases.