Cheethams

[chiefsub68]

My great great grandmother was Elizabeth Cheetham, who married John Bramhill in Liverpool in 1845. The marriage certificate says her father was William Cheetham, a flatman (ie he sailed on a Mersey flat, a type of boat), of Bond Street.

I can find the birth on Dec 3, 1815, of an Elizabeth Cheetham, daughter of William, a coal-heaver (note different job) of Denison Street.

I believe the Bramhills lived in neighbouring Gibraltar Row at the time, and John was born c1819, although I cannot find a record of his birth. I do have a birth for a Margaret Bramhill, who is presumably his sister (a Margaret witnessed the 1845 marriage), in Denison/Gibraltar in 1816.

Is it too much of an assumption to say that "my" Elizabeth of the marriage record, and the Elizabeth b 1815 are one and the same? Is the leap from coal heaver to flatman too big? Your opinions, please!

Will

[dickiesam]

Have you found an unmarried Elizabeth Cheetham in Lancashire in the 1841 census? I found 10 who were born abt 1816 +/- 2 years, but they were all married.

Does her 1845 marriage state she was a spinster?

[retiringtype]

The Liverpool Mercury of 28 August 1840 has a lengthy report of the trial of a James Hanson, a flatman, for the murder of fellow flatman William Cheetham at Manchester.

[chiefsub68]

Thanks, folks. I'm working today but I'll take a look at both of these tomorrow. Cheetham seems to be an amazingly common name in southwest Lancs ... you hardly ever come across it in Essex, for instance.

[Tina]

For the peeps 1851 census has them as Brambill with 2 alterations to their surname to Brownbill and Bramhill.
John is a cart owner 32 Betty 33 and son John 6.
All bn Lpool, 2 Gibraltar Place off Gibraltar St.

[MaryA]

Cheetham seems to be an amazingly common name in southwest Lancs ... you hardly ever come across it in Essex, for instance.

I wonder if that may be because the name originally had links with the place?

I have seen mention of the name Bramhill while looking through the parish registers for Childwall All Saints. This could be something or nothing as the name might not be uncommon - the dates I was browsing are not online.

[Tina]

Free BMD have a death for a Wm Cheetham 1st qtr 1840 Manchester
Not much help

[chiefsub68]

Thanks, Mary - I have lists of BMDs from Huyton but not Childwall, though I know lots of Bramills came from there. I assumed that there was somewhere called Cheetham because of all the Cheetham Roads, etc, that show up on Google maps; presumably the "village" is now part of a conurbation and has lost its identity.
My Bramhill/Bramill tree is back, with certainty, to John b1819, son of Thomas the blacksmith. As you know, I've pushed at this for years with no success -- I can make assumptions, but that way lies madness! As a result, the other day I went back to basics, reminding myself of what I've found out over the years to see if I've missed anything, hence trying to look at the Cheethams again.

And thanks, Tina: I wonder whether that William is the one who was murdered?

Will

[MaryA]

Cheetham - I was thinking it's origins may have been Manchester rather than Liverpool, with the water links between the two places it wouldn't be unthinkable but perhaps making too much of a jump to assume that at the point you are researching.

[retiringtype]

There are numerous press reports about the murder which received national coverage, and there is a lengthy account of the inquest.

The murder took place on the Rochdale and Manchester canal on 21 March 1840 ("Barbarous Murder in a Canal Boat"), and there is a burial record for a William Cheetham aged 31 at St Chad's Rochdale on March 25th, which seems likely to be him. Address Lower Place, Rochdale

[retiringtype]

A link to the murder report in the Annual Register http://tinyurl.com/njo7lmw

[retiringtype]

Will - are there any clues in the names of the marriage witnesses?

[chiefsub68]

Thanks for the link to the boat murder. It's an entertaining read but I do wonder whether it's "my" William CHEETHAM. Surely if he was a husband or father, it would have been mentioned in court?

As far as witnesses are concerned, one is Margaret BRAMILL, whom I presume is John the groom's sister. It looks like she was born in Denison Street in 1816, father Thomas, and married in her late 40s; the other is Edward CLEMIE or CLIMIE, who looks to have married in 1840 then again in 1865 and is on the 1885 census. I can't see any connection between Edward and the bridge or groom's families — but it's always worth checking!

I think I'm suffering from Denison Street complex: the area was such a den of iniquity that I reckon births may have been missed from registers and people may not have bothered with formal marriages.

Thanks again for everyone's help, and if you ever need any information about Colchester or Harwich in Essex, please do get in touch.

Before I go, Denison Street info from my website:

By the 1850s, Denison Street was in decay, especially following several cholera outbreaks in the neighbourhood in the 1840s. It was listed, with its near-neighbours, as home to "the principal lodging-houses for poor emigrants".

During the days of sailing ships, vessels were ‘expected any day now’ and, if the wind was against them, they could be up to three weeks late - leading to the demand for lodgings in Denison Street and around.

The London Morning Post described most of the homes as '...of the filthiest kind externally and internally. The wretched accommodation provided for the multitudes of emigrants that daily pass into Liverpool, to await the departure of the vessels by which they have secured their passage, and the robberies of all kinds to which they are subjected during their stay, are evils that the philanthropic citizens of Liverpool, who feel for the misery of their fellow-creatures, might well hasten to remedy...."

Advice to these emigrants, mainly Irish people heading for the USA, was to "engage private lodgings...while they look out a proper vessel". One writer said " The best house for supplies I found in Liverpool, where almost every thing necessary was to be procured; it is the north corner, at the top of Denison-street. It is a grocery shop and bake-house; the proprietor is a most obliging and honourable man. Emigrants, when they leave home, must have their eyes open, as they will meet with sharpers in every direction, practising on their credulity, offering the best lodgings, provisions, &c. &c.; but let every one examine for himself."

Regards

Will

[MaryA]

Nice bit of background Will, thanks.

[alex69]

The question came up regarding the location of origin of the Cheetham name.

This is not fully scientific BUT it is quite a good pointer which I read about somewhere and have used quite successfully.

In FREE BMD Search for DEATHS,enter just the surname you are researching, ALL DISTRICTS and ALL COUNTIES and the date range 1841-1846.

These dates are used a) gives time after intro of registration in 1837 for majority of deaths to be registered and b) pre mass movement of populations brought about by the railways.

For Cheetham you will see the concentrations around the greater Manchester area.

I recommend others try it for their own surname research.

Alex

[retiringtype]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheetham_Hill