Two lines of Venables in family

[Hilary]

Gnosall in Staffordshire appears to have lots of Venables including Abrahams and Williams but not exactly the dates you state. They are on Family search.

What are the names of William and Abraham's children as that may give a clue to their father's names.

[cwsfam]

Thanks for your thoughts--yes, I did read your posts and they were all helpful. I did know the Wesleyans differed from the Primitives in several ways. (1) opinion about revivals and camp meetings (W -against: P-for); (2) equal opportunities for young people, females and (later) other ethnicities (W- against:P-for) (3) probably most important--the type of hymns sung and enthusiasm exhibited (W for very quiet disciplined hymns and singing: P for exuberant, happy hymns)

This was a time of great religious upheaval in America and I am sure it was true in Britain too. Dow seems to have been regarded as a real nuisance by the Wesleyans and a breath of fresh air by the Primitives.

Here is a biography of Dow which includes some of his time in England and Ireland.

http://docsouth.unc.edu/church/brawleyld/brawley.html

[alex69]

Lorenzo Dow's wife's diary page 612ff has her account of their visit to England.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OdIx ... le&f=false

Alex

[cwsfam]

Hillary--a good point but am not so sure these names help

Abraham Venable Sr (1662 Cheshire-1710 Virginia) and wife Elizabeth had at least three children--Abraham, jr (my line), John and a baby that died young. (Isaac)
I believe the father of Abraham was Thomas, but am still working on that.

William Venables (1787 Lancashire-1868 Louisiana) had children by two wives it seems. The children were named John Matthews, Louis H (Henry I think), Mary Nancy and William Fenlow

[cwsfam]

Awesome find, Alex! thanks!

[MaryA]

Good find Alex and welcome to the forum, I notice that you have been helping out on a couple of our recent queries, thanks.

[dickiesam]

From Familysearch again....

A possible marriage, if you read Ann for Hannah..

Name: Thomas Venables
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Jul 1763
Event Place: Middlewich, Cheshire, England
Gender: Male
Spouse's Name: Ann Pickmore
GS Film number: 2106066
Digital Folder Number: 004019027
Image Number: 00375

[dickiesam]

Several Middlewich christenings on FamilySearch for children of Thomas and Hannah Venables and two for a Thomas and Ann, so they may not be the same parents especially since Thomas and Hannah appear not to have children prior to 1780.

In all entries the place of Residence is given as Middlewich, Cheshire, England.

Peter Venables: England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 30 September 1764, Middlewich, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Venables; mother: Ann

John Venables: England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 30 September 1764, Middlewich, Cheshire, England
died: 12 October 1764
father: Thomas Venables; mother: Ann

Thomas Venables: England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 30 January 1780, Middlewich, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Venables; mother: Hannah

John Venables: England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 22 September 1782 Middlewich, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Venables; mother: Hannah

Hannah Venables: England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
Christening: 5 February 1785, Middlewich, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Venables; mother: Hannah

Jane Venables: England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 16 September 1787, Middlewich, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Venables; mother: Hannah

William Venables: England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 29 November 1789, Middlewich, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Venables; mother: Hannah

Mary Venables: England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 30 March 1792, Middlewich, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Venables; mother: Hannah

Joseph Venables: England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 13 March 1796, Middlewich, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Venables; mother: Hannah

Moses Venables: England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
birth: 31 July 1794
christening: August 1794, Middlewich, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Venables; mother: Hannah

Ann Venables: England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
birth: 6 March 1799
christening: 3 April 1799, Middlewich, Cheshire, England
father: Thomas Venables; mother: Hannah

[dickiesam]

This could be the Thomas Venables + Hannah marriage for all those christenings...

Thomas Venebles: England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
residence: 13 January 1777, Whitegate, Cheshire, England
marriage: 13 January 1777, Whitegate, Cheshire, England
spouse: Hannah Hodgkinson

Whitegate and Middlewich are quite close, only around 5 miles apart.

[cwsfam]

Thanks so much everyone--
That helps a great deal. I will see if I can find anything about any of those families. Since I don't have the world wide subscription for ancestry now (it wasn't working anyway, unfortunately) could someone perhaps run some of those names through ancestry.uk? If we have a Venables family with a William that could fit the "well respected,etc" criteria given in a couple of documents, we might have our man. I assume that "well respected" at that time probably meant prosperous upper middle class? or maybe clergy in Anglican church since we have William being converted to Methodism at age 13 or so? Other suggestions? I am just guessing from what would have been the case in the United States at the time. (And I am thinking it more and more likely he 'fudged' his age a bit to seem older, don't you?

[Hilary]

I did post on Wednesday that The Middlewich William is living in Middlewich in 1841 so cannot be your William. There is tree for him on Ancestry

I also suggest as I did before that you try the Gnosall Venables as there are both Abrahams and Williams there.

[cwsfam]

Thank you for your second suggestion I look at Gnosall, Hilary. I have been doing so. There are several different sites and records to look through and it is taking some time. As yet, I have found interesting hints, but nothing that links a line to the Mary (perhaps) Venable who married a Hayes.

[Bertieone]

Hi Barbara,
Do I assume correctly, the marriage between Captain Richard Hayes and Mary Venable you seek?

[cwsfam]

Possibly, Bert. Did you find something?

[Bertieone]

Unfortunately very little,

There is a mention on the application form, Sons of the Revolution.

http://s1317.photobucket.com/user/berti ... 7.jpg.html

how reliable the information on these forms are I wouldn't know, however, its just a name with no dates and so far I can't find any other information for a marriage of Mary Venable to Richard.

Any other names on the form recognisable to you Barbara?

[cwsfam]

It's the same family as far as I can tell, Bert. I had found the SAR application first, but took it with a grain of salt, because the SAR originally was not very particular about the kinds of documents required to prove a line. I even saw "family tradition" listed as proof once!

It DID lead me to the DAR.org website and they have very strict requirements for proofs of lineage. In fact, over the years, they went back over all their accepted applications and checked them again for accuracy and appropriate supplied documentation. Those records which were considered lacking have been highlighted on their genealogy search lists.

So, when I checked the DAR listing for my Richard Hayes and found that the DAR also had documentation listing marriage to a Mary Venable, I felt much more confident. In fact, there are about 8 or 9 lineages from the two which were accepted. Each of those had to supply all documentation separately from all other applications unless designated as a short form, so the DAR does have some proof of the marriage.

I will probably have to purchase those records, because that is my weakest part of this research. All of you have been so helpful, I think I can extend the Venable line up from Mary, but I do need to finish documenting the connection back down to me.

Thank you for your help!