1851 Census Query

[russellci]

For 2 years I have been looking for my g'grandparents in the 1851 census. Mary Marks married William Dodge in November 1848 (I have the certificate): but she had had a daughter, Jane Ann Dodge in October 1848. Jane Ann's birth certificate states she is the child of Mary Dodge (born Marks) and William Dodge, Saddler. Presumably they found some way of getting this done!

I can find ALL the census returns for William & Mary Dodge but nothing for her and her husband and baby daughter in the 1851 census even though they must have been in Liverpool as they had 4 additional children in Liverpool between 1853 and1860 (when they left for the Channel Islands).
Jane Ann was born in 1848 at 5 Court Sparling Street
Their next child, Isabella, was born in 1853 at 1 Court Greville Street South,
William Henry, 1855, 8 Court, Renshaw St.
Richard David 1858, 8 Court, Renshaw St
Ada Mary Aug. 1860, 8 Court, Renshaw St
By the 1861 Census they were living in the Channel Islands

Anybody have any suggestions?
Claire

[dickiesam]

Hello Claire,
Happy New Year!
To aid the many willing eyes here I have posted the following info to help the search.

For the crew.....
Ages and 'birthplaces' of the Dodge family in 1861. Places of birth in italics have been culled from later censuses.
1861:
RG09 Piece: 4399 Folio: 70 Page: 7
Address: Lavender Cottage, Mont A L Abbi, St Helier, Jersey
DODGE, Wm Head 42 1819 Packing Case Maker - England, Dorsetshire
DODGE, Mary Wife 35 1826 - England, Lancashire, Liverpool.
DODGE, Jane Dtr 12 1849 - England, Lancashire, Liverpool.
DODGE, Isabella Dtr 8 1853 - England, Lancashire, Liverpool.
DODGE, Wm Son 5 1856 - England, Lancashire, Liverpool.
DODGE, Richd Son 3 1858 - England, Lancashire, Liverpool.
DODGE, Ada Dtr 0 (7M) 1861 - England, Lancashire, Liverpool.

By 1871 William is a portmanteau maker!

Logic says the family should be in Liverpool in 1851 but I haven't found them yet. I suspect a garbled transcription of the surname.

[dickiesam]

For the record.... Wrong surname but right forenames and many coincidences as highlighted...

1851:
HO107 Piece: 2184 Folio: 102 Page: 44
Address: 3 Lime Street, Liverpool.
ANDREWS, William Head 35 1816 Trunk Maker - Gillingham, Dorsetshire
ANDREWS, Mary Wife 25 1825 - Liverpool, Lancashire
ANDREWS, Jane Dtr 2 1849 - Liverpool, Lancashire
ANDREWS, Esther Dtr 0 (6 MOS) 1850 - Liverpool, Lancashire

Trunk maker, portmanteau maker and packing case maker are all very similar trades.

Edit to add: The original census summary page has been filled in badly by the enumerator/transcriber. Male/female ages were written in the wrong columns as well as incorrect ages being entered, so could Andrews also be a mistake?

Edit 2:
Deaths Mar 1855: Dodge, Esther Liverpool 8b 172 [how old was she?]

[erika]

Sounds promisimg DS

All I've found so far is a baptism for Richard David on 31 May 1858 at St Peters.
Parents William - Trunk Maker - and Mary and living at Renshaw Street, which confirms Claire's birth

[Bertieone]

Name:
Esther Dodge
Birth Year:
abt 1850
Age:
4
Burial Date:
21 Jan 1854
Parish:
Liverpool, St Michael
8 court
Renshaw st

[Bertieone]

The burial image is 1855, transcription error to above.

[dickiesam]

Name:
Esther Dodge
Birth Year:
abt 1850
Age:
4
Burial Date:
21 Jan 1854
Parish:
Liverpool, St Michael
8 court
Renshaw st

Well found Bert. Right address too. Grist to the mill....

[dickiesam]

Re:

Mary Marks married William Dodge in November 1848 (I have the certificate): but she had had a daughter, Jane Ann Dodge in October 1848. Jane Ann's birth certificate states she is the child of Mary Dodge (born Marks) and William Dodge, Saddler. Presumably they found some way of getting this done!

Re: Births Dec 1848 - Dodge, Jane Ann Liverpool 20 422

Because Jane's birth surname was registered as Dodge although born before the marriage it would appear that the father attended on the Registrar to confirm he was the father. It is my understanding that Mary would not have been allowed to enter the surname Dodge without his consent. How long a gap is there between the date of birth and date of registration?

[Hilary]

I seem to remember in a talk given by a retired registrar that until a certain date think it was 1875, the person registering the birth could state the father's name and it was assumed they were married. No evidence was required at the time.

I have a certificate with a child named with his father's name and mother states the same name with her former married name and her maiden name BUT she didn't marry the father for another 7 years.

[russellci]

Dear everybody who replied to my 1851 Census query - a huge thank you!

how Dodge became Andrews, who knows! But I think you are right - Lime Street v.close to Sparling st. and even closer to Renshaw st where the family lived till end of 1850's.

- Knew nothing about Esther Dodge (dod early 1855) but wondered about 4 yr. gap bet Jane Ann and Isabella (Jan.1853). Thanks for this: I can find no Birth Cert. for her, (or Esther Andrews!) - any suggestions?

Jane Ann Dodge-Birth cert says: 13 Oct 1848, the mark of mother Mary Dodge, formerly Marks. Registered 23 October 1848. Mary and William got married 28 Nov. 1848. Mary signed her wedding certificate but on Jane Ann's birth cert it says X the mark of Mary Dodge. I wonder if she sent a friend to register the birth?!

Another huge 'thank you' - pleasure getting to know you and a good 2014 to you all: may it be a year of brick walls crumbling! I will be back to ask your sage advice
Claire

[MaryA]

I wonder if she sent a friend to register the birth?!

One of the columns on a birth certificate is headed "Informant" and should give the relationship, it isn't always one of the parents who registers it, but it probably should be somebody who was either a parent or present at the birth.

[dickiesam]

Re:

Knew nothing about Esther Dodge (dod early 1855) but wondered about 4 yr. gap bet Jane Ann and Isabella (Jan.1853). Thanks for this: I can find no Birth Cert. for her, (or Esther Andrews!) - any suggestions?

It is quite possible the birth was not registered. Up to the early 1870s it was the responsibility of the Registrar to 'locate' and verify births from information provided by doctors, mid-wives and priests etc. He was paid by the 'each'. It later became a legal requirement for a mother to register the birth with 6 weeks of the 'event', although late registrations were allowed without penalty under certain circumstances.

[russellci]

I wonder if she sent a friend to register the birth?!

One of the columns on a birth certificate is headed "Informant" and should give the relationship, it isn't always one of the parents who registers it, but it probably should be somebody who was either a parent or present at the birth.

But if they didn't have to prove who they were?!

[russellci]

Re:

Knew nothing about Esther Dodge (dod early 1855) but wondered about 4 yr. gap bet Jane Ann and Isabella (Jan.1853). Thanks for this: I can find no Birth Cert. for her, (or Esther Andrews!) - any suggestions?

It is quite possible the birth was not registered. Up to the early 1870s it was the responsibility of the Registrar to 'locate' and verify births from information provided by doctors, mid-wives and priests etc. He was paid by the 'each'. It later became a legal requirement for a mother to register the birth with 6 weeks of the 'event', although late registrations were allowed without penalty under certain circumstances.

Thanks for that information: have not been able to find another relative's birth and this would explain possibly why.

[dickiesam]

But if they didn't have to prove who they were?!

Correct! No documentary evidence of identity was required. It was enough that someone present at the birth was the informant.