illegitimacy in the late 1800s

[dennison]

Im still trying to get to bottom of my great grandfather Thomas Dennison from Penrith / later Thomas Dennison Johnstone in Liverpool.
1n 1881 we have,
Dennison Elisabeth head widow f 74
Dennison Mary daug single f 39
Dennison Thomas gran son m 8

We had assumed Thomas was illegitimate and taken on his fathers surname later in life he has John Johnstone on his marriage cert.

I have just got his birth cert today and lo and behold it has no fathers name as we expected , but his mother is named as Elizabeth. It is the same address on the birth cert as were they were living at on the 1871 census.
Elizabeth would have been in her 60s at the time of birth, so was it a common occurrence for the grandmother to register the baby as her own if born out of wedlock ? perhaps to protect her daughters name?
Does anyone know if this was a routine situation at the time?
Thanks in advance for your help

Chris

[Bertieone]

Initial thoughts,

If this is the family in 1861,
Class: RG 9; Piece: 3899; Folio: 97; Page: 18;

Could he be Elizabeth's the daughters?

[Bertieone]

This could be Elizabeth the daughter, a servant, 1871,
RG10; Piece: 5276; Folio: 41; Page: 23;

don't know whether she was there just census night or lived in, but perhaps lived at the given address, Birth cert, at the time of birth, 1873.

[dennison]

Yes Bert, the sister Elizabeth was in service at the Patterdale Hotel in Patterdale, so it makes sense that if she was the mother, Thomas would be looked after by his grandmother.
Some times you cant see the wood for the trees.........

Thanks again

[dickiesam]

Given that the 1871 census [RG10 Piece: 5201 Folio: 36 Page: 20] at Queen Street, Penrith, does not show another daughter named Elizabeth I think it logical to assume that the g.mother chose her own name as the mother on Thomas' birth cert. There could be no intent to 'deceive' the Registrar by pretending to be the mother of the child because of her own age.

What is written in column 7 of the birth cert [Signature, description and residence of informant]? Possibly something like Elizabeth Dennison, her mark X, present at birth? That would suggest to me she was 'hiding' Mary's name to save face or she [or someone] made a genuine mistake.

1871: Address: Queen Street, Penrith
DENNISON, John Head 65 1806 - Cumberland
DENNISON, Elizabeth Wife 62 1809 - Cumberland
DENNISON, Mary Dtr 31 1840 - Cumberland
ATKINSON, Mary J Lodger 10 1861 - Westmorland
ATKINSON, Joseph Lodger 8 1863 - Cumberland

But theorising apart... back to 1861 and we find the plot thickens....
RG09 Piece: 3899 Folio: 97 Page: 17
Address: Albert Street, Penrith, Cumberland
DENNISON, John Head 56 1805 Brewery Man - Croglin, Cumberland
DENNISON, Elizabeth Wife 52 1809 - Dacre, Cumberland
DENNISON, Mary Dtr u/m 22 1839 Dressmaker - Newbiggin, Cumberland
DENNISON, Annas Dtr u/m 18 1843 Servant Out Of Place - Penrith, Cumberland
DENNISON, Elizabeth Dtr 12 1849 Scholar - Penrith, Cambridgeshire

In 1871 this dtr Elizabeth is here:
RG10 Piece: 5276 Folio: 41 Page: 23
Reg. District: West Ward
Sub District: Lowther
Parish: Patterdale Below How
Address: Patterdale Hotel, Patterdale Below How, Westmorland
DIXON, Elizabeth Head 35 1836 - Westmorland
STEPHENSON, William Servant 33 1838 - Cumberland
WATT, Mary Servant 19 1852 - Cumberland
DENNISON, Elizabeth Servant - 21 1850 - Cumberland

Marriages Jun 1873: DENNISON, Elizabeth - W. Ward 10b 1185
She married either JOHNSTON, William or Thwaites, Joseph

I assume this is Thomas' birth?
Births Sep 1872: DENNISON, Thomas Penrith 10b 427

I reckon she went back home to have the baby and the birth cert is quite correct.

[dennison]

Wow, thanks dickiesam, you just managed to knock down one of my brick walls, and I thought the birth cert I got today was of not much help, now I think not only is his mothers name corrected as Elizabeth the other daughter{ I cant believe I had overlooked her} but we possibly have the father as well.
FLIPPIN FANTASTIC Thanks to all Chris

[dickiesam]

Wow, thanks dickiesam, you just managed to knock down one of my brick walls, and I thought the birth cert I got today was of not much help, now I think not only is his mothers name corrected as Elizabeth the other daughter{ I cant believe I had overlooked her} but we possibly have the father as well.
FLIPPIN FANTASTIC Thanks to all Chris

Dey don't call me dozer for nuttink! LOL!

Oh, I remember now. They called me Dozy!

[Bertieone]

marriage,


Name:
William Johnston
Gender:
Male
Birth Date:
abt 1853
Age:
20
Father's Name:
William Johnston
Spouse's Name:
Elizabeth Dennison
Spouse's Age:
22
Spouse's Father's Name:
John Dennison
Marriage Date:
26 Jun 1873
Marriage Place:
Patterdale, Westmorland, England

[dennison]

mmm looks promising, it all seems to be in the right place,. although on Thomas,s marriage cert his father is named as John Johnstone, wonder if getting that marriage cert would shed any more light, thanks Bertieone

[dickiesam]

mmm looks promising, it all seems to be in the right place,. although on Thomas,s marriage cert his father is named as John Johnstone, wonder if getting that marriage cert would shed any more light, thanks Bertieone

Wondering if John was actually the father? Did William have a brother John?

[Bertieone]

mmm looks promising, it all seems to be in the right place,. although on Thomas,s marriage cert his father is named as John Johnstone, wonder if getting that marriage cert would shed any more light, thanks Bertieone

What marriage details do you have, Chris?

[Bertieone]

Hi Chris,

This is the marriage,


Name:
Thomas Johnstone
Gender:
Male
Marriage Date:
14 Jul 1895
Marriage Place:
St Mary Kirkdale, Walton On The Hill, Lancaster, England
Father:
John Johnstone
Spouse:
Frances Bertha Morgan

The 1911 census,
RG14, Piece22377,
the first 3 children given Dennison as middle names.

[dennison]

Thanks all , that's all the information I had originally, Thomas arrived in Liverpool age 19 as Thomas Dennison, he married in 1895 and subsequently added the surname Johnstone, and also adding it to middle names of his children, my grandmother Frances and her siblings, My problem as been trying to find a connection between a Dennison and a Johnstone. This recent info seems to do just that.
I think I now need to try and find out what happened to Elizabeth and William/ John{ and his family } considering Thomas was still living with his gran and auntie in 1881 aged 8.
Thanks again
Chris

[dickiesam]

So it seems that at some stage in his early adult life Thomas Dennison discovered that he was born illegitimate but was able to ascertain his father's surname Johnston before he married, adding the 'e' perhaps in error. Need to find out if William Johnston who married his mother Elizabeth Dennison had a brother John? And William's father was named John?

[dickiesam]

Is this William and Elizabeth Johnston in 1881?

RG11 Piece: 5169 Folio: 25 Page: 21
Address: Weary Hall Cottages, Bolton Low Aka Bolton Wood And Quarry Hill, Cumberland
KESWICK, Joseph Head 40 1841 Coal Miner - Bolton, Cumberland
KESWICK, Mary Wife 41 1840 - Bolton, Cumberland
ARMSTRONG, Jessie Cousin 12 1869 Scholar - Dalston, Cumberland
GRAHAM, Mary Boarder u/m 30 1851 Labourer At Coal Pit - Ellenborough, Cumberland
JOHNSTONE, William Lodger 30 1851 Coal Mine - Penrith, Cumberland
JOHNSTONE, Elizabeth Lodger's Wife 31 1850 - Penrith, Cumberland
JOHNSTONE, Mary Jane Lodger's Dtr 0 1881 - Penrith, Cumberland

[dennison]

Hi, dickiesam, yes I think they are the same Elizabeth and William so it begs the question as to why little Thomas is left at home with Gran and Auntie in 1881 while they have started a new family elsewhere.
Also Dickie, back to previous question on Thomas,s birth cert in column 7 I says "x the mark of Elizabeth Dennison mother Queen St"
thanks chris

[dickiesam]

Hi, dickiesam, yes I think they are the same Elizabeth and William so it begs the question as to why little Thomas is left at home with Gran and Auntie in 1881 while they have started a new family elsewhere.
Also Dickie, back to previous question on Thomas,s birth cert in column 7 I says "x the mark of Elizabeth Dennison mother Queen St"
Thanks, chris

Hi Chris,
I believe the child Thomas was something of a regrettable 'mistake' by his mother and that the man she married was not the father. It was not uncommon for such 'mistakes' to be brought up by g.parents or even a kind neighbour. The latter happened in my line when my g.g.mother took in a baby born in 1892 to a 14 year-old servant girl, the daughter of a friend, and raised the child as her own. It can't be proved but it looks as though the child's father was the mother's employer, a 40 year old 'gentleman of independent means'.

As to the birth cert I think we can now assume the birth was registered by Thomas' mother, the unmarried Elizabeth.