Charles Joseph Duffy and Francis Ryan, burials in 1915

[daggers]

This could have gone in the 'Military' section but I thought it would catch more eyes here.

Two soldiers of 3rd Battalion, King's Liverpool Regiment, serving in UK, died and were buried at Pembroke Dock Military Cemetery. There are problems with subsidence at the cemetery and the War Graves Commission has announced that a small number of exhumations and reburials are being planned.
They are seeking relatives of Privates Duffy and Ryan.

Pte Duffy was from Liverpool and enlisted here. His number was 23484.
Pte Ryan was born in Longford, Ireland and enlisted in Liverpool. His number was 3/10511.

I hope this may catch the eye of anyone related.

Daggers
[Mary, feel free to move this elsewhere if you think it better.]

[MaryA]

From UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919
Charles Duffy in the Kings (Liverpool Regiment) 3rd Batallion
Enlistment Location Liverpool, died 5 Oct 1915
Death location and Theatre of War - Home

[dickiesam]

This is Charles Duffy,,,

Death: DUFFY, Charles J
Registration district: Pembroke, Pembrokeshire
Year of registration: 1915; Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death: 41 [= 1874]
Volume no: 11A; Page no: 1409

From CWGC...
Death: DUFFY, CHARLES JOSEPH
Rank: Private
Service No: 23484
Date of Death: 05/10/1915
Age: 41
Regiment/Service: The King's (Liverpool Regiment), 3rd Bn.
Grave Reference C. 15.
Cemetery: PEMBROKE DOCK MILITARY CEMETERY
Additional Information:
Son of Michael and Ann Duffy, of Liverpool; husband of Catherine Duffy, of 120, Abingdon Rd., Queen's Drive, Walton, Liverpool.

1910+1:
Address: 216 New Chester Road, Lower Bebington, Cheshire
DUFFY, Charles Head 37 1874 Clerk - Soap Factory - Liverpool Lancashire
DUFFY, Catherine Wife 34 1877 - Liverpool, Lancashire [married 11 years]
DUFFY, Charles Son 9 1902 - Liverpool, Lancashire
DUFFY, Kathleen Dtr 7 1904 - Liverpool, Lancashire
DUFFY, Francis Son 5 1906 - Liverpool, Lancashire

Marriages Dec 1899: Duffy, Charles Joseph married Wall, Mary - W. Derby 8b 984

1901: RG13 Piece: 3488 Folio: 105 Page: 11
Address: 69 Webster Road, West Derby
DUFFY, Chas Head 27 1874 Railway Clerk - Liverpool, Lancashire
DUFFY, Catherine Wife 24 1877 - Liverpool, Lancashire

Working on trying to find descendants.

[dickiesam]

There were only two male Ryan deaths registered in Pembroke between 1914 and 1920.
RYAN, Francis - [40] - Wales, Pembrokeshire, Pembroke 1915
RYAN, Charles - [54] - Wales, Pembrokeshire, Pembroke 1918

I believe the second one was too old to be a serving soldier, so this is the first one...
Death: RYAN, Francis
Registration district: Pembroke, Pembrokeshire
Year of registration: 1915; Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at death: 40 [= bn abt 1875]
Volume no: 11A; Page no: 1237

From CWGC...
Death: RYAN, F
Rank: Private
Service No: 3/10511
Date of Death: 23/07/1915
Regiment/Service: The King's (Liverpool Regiment), 3rd Bn.
Grave Reference C. 14.
Cemetery: PEMBROKE DOCK MILITARY CEMETERY

Hope to have more later...

[dickiesam]

Daggers,
I may have found a living descendant of Charles Joseph Duffy alive in 1970 in Blackburn, and no death recorded up to 2005. And there could be children to be found. Because these are living people details are in a PM.

[dickiesam]

Following on from some success, hopefully, in tracking down a probable descendent of Charles Joseph Duffy, I am not having much joy finding anything on Francis Ryan. Haven't found him as a birth in Longford where he is said to come from. He's not in either of the Irish Censuses and I haven't found him in the 1911 or 1910, or earlier yet.

Disappointingly, all I have so far is his death registration...
Deaths Sep 1915: Ryan, Francis[40] - Pembroke 11a 1237

Eyes down, look in.... having another go.

Has anyone found an Army Record Card for him?

[Bertieone]

No card DS,

There's a Francis Patrick Ryan
Dec Qtr 1878
Longford Ireland
Longford, Vol3 Page 221

Perhaps this is him before he joined up,

1911
Francis Ryan, bn Ireland, boarder Seaforth.


Rg14 P22302

Ages are a bit out.

Searching for Private Ryan, make a good film title that.

[dickiesam]

May have found a candidate for Francis Ryan. He's the only hit in Lancashire in the 1910+1. His age is out by 4 years but perhaps he 'lost' a couple of years when he enlisted?

1910+1:
Address: 1 Balfe Street, Seaforth, Lancashire
SNOW, Charlotte Head Widow 59 1852 Laundress - Walthamton Kent
SNOW, William Thomas Son u/m 35 1876 Labourer - Bow London
RYAN, Francis Boarder u/m 40 1871 Labourer - Ireland NK

Unfortunately, there's no indication of where in Ireland he was born. And the NK possibly means either he or the head of household didn't know.

Edit to add.... Snap, Bert! Great minds and all that.

[dickiesam]

If that Francis Patrick Ryan, bn Longford 1878, is the Francis in Seaforth in 1911 where he is unmarried, there doesn't appear to be a marriage for him up to 1915. And he isn't in the Irish 1901. So apart from possible siblings it is unlikely there are any contactable descendents.

[Bertieone]

Baptism

Name:
Francis Patrick Ryan
Gender:
Male
Birth Date:
19 Nov 1878
Birth Place:
Longford, Ireland
Father's Name:
Patrick Ryan
Father's Birth Place:
Langford
Mother's Name:
Margaret Mcdermott

[daggers]

The 3rd Battalion, KLR did not serve in a war zone, remaining in UK (including Ireland, it was then), so these soldiers would not earn war medals and had no medal index cards.
The Duffy information received earlier by PM has been passed on to CWGC who are very grateful for this help.
I shall wait a bit longer for more on Pte Ryan.
Well done you sleuths.
D

[Bertieone]

Just one to throw in to the mix,

Francis Ryan, bn abt 1880, Longford,
age on enlistment, 18, document year 1898.

Royal Irish, 6309.

Transferred to reserve, Fermoy,1906

Discharged, Termination of Engagement, 18th ???, 1914, Section D

Next of kin, Mother, Margaret, Brothers, Christopher, Leinster Regiment. Henry, Belfast.

Is it possible he came over here and joined the Kings?

[Bertieone]

This Christopher is the above soldiers brother,

Name:
Christopher Ryan
Gender:
Male
Birth Date:
23 Dec 1876
Birth Place:
Longford, Longford, Ireland
Father's Name:
Patrick Ryan
Mother's Name:
Margaret Ryan Mcdermott

[dickiesam]

Francis RYAN
Calculated year of birth: 1880
Parish of birth: Templemichael
Town of birth: Longford
County of birth: Longford
Occupation: Labourer
Age at attestation: 17 years
Attestation date: 22 March 1897
Attestation corps: 6TH BN RIFLE BRIGADE [Militia]
Attestation soldier number: 1092
Service Term: 6 years.
Discharge corps: Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)
The National Archives reference: WO96

On the 19th March 1898 he was transferred into the Regular Army, The Royal Irish Regiment.

[daggers]

Great stuff! I have passed it all on to CWGC who are most grateful for all your expertise. As direct descendants of Pte Ryan seem unlikely, they will hold the information in case they have contact from other sources, and will use this for comparison.

Daggers

[MaryA]

Well done guys! great job. I will look forward to hearing whether contact is eventually made and a successful relocation of the graves made.

[Athy Guthrie]

wow! less than 12 hours after showing Kathy the news thing on Private Ryan and its almost solved!! ....... wtg people .............. If you need any up to date addresses ..... I can get them ....