Harold Sidney Smith... A mystery man ??

[simone]

Ok thanks Steve, just had me wondering if he was close to Albert so used his name..... the found a WW1 record for Albert Peaty, Royal Veterinary Corps, which had me thinking more it's only a request for his discharge documents, 1 page, although it says 2

Albert Peaty
Regimental Number:12397
Regiment Name
Royal Army Veterinary Corps
Number of Images:2

just trying to think outside the box...... a bit too far probably

Simone x

[erika]

On the 1911 next door to the Peats were a family of Smiths, are any of their names familiar? A long shot I know

[Blue70]

Blue,
No I hadn't come across this before, but if for instance my grandmother had had another child and called it Rebecca after herself, the record would show the mother's maiden name to be Edgar. I don't think this is right.

It is quite a rare surname, it's in the right registration district and the fact that the child was named Rebecca is interesting. If this was me I would apply for the birth certificate at the GRO, entering that the index reference is not known (No), year to be searched as 1917, then on the next page enter Gerring, Rebecca, 01/01/1917, Liverpool and just mother's forename as Rebecca. If the mother is not Rebecca then the GRO shouldn't issue the certificate.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/


Blue

[SMITH923]

Hi Liverbird,
That is a very good theory that I hadn't considered. I always thought that my grandmother had met Harold in London maybe while he was posted there as he was a soldier. I hadn't thought that she could have gone to Liverpool with her employer and met him as a lodger. That is a distinct possibility and could work. I will definitely check that out and look for records with her employers name in Liverpool. Thamks for that, and I hope you have more luck with your search too.
Regards, Steve.

[Liverbird]

Hi Steve you are welcome. Your posting took me right back to my childhood, Dorothy street was lovely just off a very busy shopping centre, Wavertree Road all the houses in the area were lived in by very hard working family's who's doors were always open, a great community. All so proud of their homes, I could go on and on, any thing you want to know more of the area that I can help with please ask. Cheers l.b

[SMITH923]

Hi Simone,
Your record of Albert Peaty, Royal Veterinary Corps, is a very interesting coincidence. I just don't understand why on earth Harold would make up his father's name and profession. As I said before ,there is enough evidence to suggest that Albert is right, as my dad's name is Joseph Harold Albert Smith, and Albert is also on dad's marriage cert. albeit that Albert was his grandfather.

[SMITH923]

Hi Erika,
I've looked at the 1911 record for the Peats and the Smith's that are next door are unfamiliar names to me, but then, other than Harold I don't know any other Smith names, so I wouldn't know if they were right or not.

Back then, christian names were usually passed down to children, as is the case with my dad. Joseph was his grandfathers name, Harold was his dad's name, and Albert was his grandad's name. My dad had a sister, Teresa Annie Smith, so if I were looking for familiar names it would probably be these.

Thanks,
Steve.

[SMITH923]

Hi Liverbird,
You said that there are photos of Dorothy Street online. Could you point me to these please.

Secondly, I have looked again at the 1911 census for my grandmother, and she is listed as a Domestic Cook at 36 Jervis Road, Fulham, London.
There is also another Domestic Cook, named Emily Newman aged 56.
The family they appear to work for are :
William Albert Walden aged 50, a Timekeeper and Army Pensioner.
Lucy Walden aged 49.
and a son Stanley Cuthbert Walden aged 9.

I will try to look for them in Liverpool records but I'm not sure where to start.

[simone]

It was just an idea steve that we have seen it before as maybe someone trying to hide illegitimatcy... however, as you say your father named him on his marriage and with being called Albert as well does suggest tje name being passed down

[Blue70]

Harold Sidney Smith could well be the father of the Rebecca born in 1917. As the parents were not married only the mother's name has been recorded. The mother may have neglected to tell the registrar that she was a widow and so no maiden name was recorded.


Blue

[SMITH923]

Hi Blue,
Yes I take your point. He could well have been the father of Rebecca b.1917
Thanks.

[dickiesam]

Hi Liverbird,
You said that there are photos of Dorothy Street online. Could you point me to these please.

Just google 'Dorothy Street, Edge Hill, Liverpool'

[dickiesam]

Re:

Strangely, on my dad's birth cert. His dad is stated as Harold "Sefus" Smith, a journeyman baker. Sefus? Where did that come from?

Just to add to the confusing mix.....
Sefus could be a simple mis-spelling of the forename Cephus!
See: http://www.ourbabynamer.com/meaning-of-Cephus.html

On your father's birth cert is his mother shown as Rebecca J(ane) Smith, previously Gerring, formerly Edgar? Or wording to that effect?

[simone]

Have done a search on ancestry for Albert with keyword as vet*
A few veterinary surgeons or app/ assts came up but none Smith...did it the other way withSmith and vet* but none came up as Albert.
Tried to see if Albert a vet married a Smith in case he was a step dad...
Got an Albert Gledhill a vet b 1864 Yorkshire marrying Susannah Smith but wasn't until 1919 also he may have been previously married to florrie smith in 1909. Marriage on freebmd with either her or annie mellor.

So all in all still got nowhere yet

[Bertieone]

Hi Steve,

We all know the possibilities of porkies that surround marriage certs, as far as Harold is concerned, could he have added years to his age? He may have done if he was marrying a widow many years older than himself, it saved eyes rolling. Its possible he made up his fathers occupation, it wouldn't be the first time someone has.
The name 'Sefus' not likely a name added to a birth cert by mistake, perhaps spelt wrong which would be acceptable.

Clutching at straws,

Harold Seafus Smith, 1896, Flegg, 4b 44

RG14, P9346

[simone]

Nice one Bert 10 years out with age isn't so far fetched is it where's flegg and what is Alberts occupation. ..sorry not at computer.

[Bertieone]

Nice one Bert 10 years out with age isn't so far fetched is it where's flegg and what is Alberts occupation. ..sorry not at computer.

Hi Simone,

Flegg is Norfolk and it looks like Albert is a carman,

Wondering if Albert served in the Army Veterinary Corps.

Edit, Albert, Carman not Gasman.

[simone]

Thanks Bert... yes that's what I was thinking. .....if Albert Peat is the Albert Peaty in vets corps, maybe it would be Albert Smith he was a comrade of rather than Harold

[MaryA]

Amazing coincidence of names there Bert, definitely something our poster should delve into.

[Hilary]

My grandmother Elizabeth Jones was also a mystery person so in the end the only way I could see how to find where she was born and when was to pay the £42 pounds to get the entry for where they were living in 1939 for the National Identity Cards.

If you know the home address in 1939 it may be the way forward. I wrote an article about this in the Society's Journal last year but there is also a long posting telling the story on the forum under Cold Cases. Sadly no use if you don't have a home address for August/September 1939