Lookup, Liverpool Records. Eliza McDonald

[djw3]

Eliza McDonald, born Liverpool baptised 3 August 1845, St Peter, father Alan McDonald policeman, mother Eliza. Lived in Rathbone Street.
Wanting to find maiden name of mother. Also marriage for Eliza if one exists.
Can not find marriage in index for Alan and Eliza(mother)
Alan died in 1847, mother Eliza remarried to John Williams. This family can be found, 1851 HO107/2179/498/27, 1861 RG9/2670/40/9

I would like to request a look up if possible.
Thanks djw

[Blue70]

Hi djw

Welcome to the forum. According to a tree on Ancestry mother's maiden name was Blythin. The 1847 marriage record at Llanasa, Flintshire, Wales is available to view on FMP according to the Family Search website's transcript so this record could be useful. The marriage index includes the names Elizabeth MacDonald and Elizabeth Blythin so there appears to be a link here that's worth investigating. FMP is available to view free in some libraries and they often have special offers available.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCRL-MM9


Blue

[Blue70]

Liverpool Mercury Friday 4 June 1847





Blue

[dickiesam]

Hi and welcome,
There are only 2 births registered in Liverpool between the March qtr and the Sept qtr of 1845. Because the baptism took place in the Sept qtr it would appear that the June qtr birth is probably the one you are seeking information on.
Births Mar 1845: McDonald, Eliza - Liverpool 20 567
Births Jun 1845: McDonald, Elizabeth - Liverpool 20 354

While Blue has posted that there is a tree on Ancestry with apparently relevant information you need to be sure the source of that information is derived from the birth cert itself. To be 100% sure you could order a copy of the cert from the GRO stipulating the parents' names. To do this just enter the year and tick the 'No' box where you are asked if you know the GRO references.

The absence of a marriage entry in the GRO from Sept qtr 1837 for an Alan McDonald and Eliza/Elizabeth does suggest they were not married for some reason. He should be in the 1841, so if you have his death cert how old was he when he died? I assume this is the death?
Deaths Jun 1847: McDonald, Allan - Liverpool 20 712

[Blue70]

I can't find a possible marriage for the daughter Eliza she may have died unmarried.


Blue

[Blue70]

Gore’s Directory of Liverpool 1843

McDonald Allan, inspector of police, Richmond buildings, 10, Great Richmond street



Blue

[Blue70]

I presume you don't have the marriage record of Eliza McDonald to John Williams as you would then have likely known Eliza's father's name. DS has the best suggestion for finding out the maiden name of the mother of Eliza the daughter born in 1845 (purchasing the birth certificate from the GRO) if you are reluctant to do so and reluctant to pay to view the record on FMP and don't have free library access look out for the next FMP free access or free credits offer and be sure to view the marriage record then. It's included in FMP's Flint Marriages collection.


Blue

[dickiesam]

That Ancestry tree that Blue referred to may be misleading.
The Elizabeth McDonald who married John Williams at Llanasa in Flintshire on 25th September 1847 is not your Elizabeth, although she was born on Anglesey. Her father was Thomas McDonald, a miner. The banns also confirm bride and groom both lived in the parish of Llan Asa.

This is the family in 1851... HO107 Piece 2500 - Folio 88 - Page 39
Address: Ffynnon Gronw, Llan Asa, Holywell, Flintshire, Wales
John Williams Head 35 1816 Collier - Llan Asa, Flintshire, Wales
Elizabeth Williams Wife 31 1820 - Amlwch, Anglesey, Wales
William Williams Son 2 1849 - Llan Asa, Flintshire, Wales
Edward Williams Son 1 1850 - Llan Asa, Flintshire, Wales
John Davies Lodger U/m 34 1817 - Pensioner E T C Service - Chester, Cheshire.

[djw3]

Thank you both, Blue and Dickiesam for your replies.

I have looked at the marriage for Elizabeth Blythin and McDonald ln1847 but it seemed too short to me between the death of Alan and the marriage. Dickiesam seems to confirm this. Thanks for the information on Alan's death.
I do not have a marriage certificate for Eliza and Alan. It is only recently that I have been researching them, John Williams being my great grandfather, and Eliza my great grandmother.
Both my parents were Liverpool born but married in NZ.

I looked up the 1841 census for an Allan McDonald and found an Allen McDonald in Minster, Isle of Sheppey, born Ireland 1819, policeman. Could be him? It looks like I will have to send for the birth cert of Eliza.
Again thanks for your help, really appreciated.
DJW

[Blue70]

-Corrected post-

[dickiesam]

Re:

I looked up the 1841 census for an Allan McDonald and found an Allen McDonald in Minster, Isle of Sheppey, born Ireland 1819, policeman. Could be him?

I think the birth-place entry is actually an S for Scotland not an I for Ireland. May have been transcribed incorrectly on your site look-up. To follow up this 1841 hit the death cert for Allen McDonald should show his age as given by the informant.

[dickiesam]

Scotland's People gives 4 hits for an Allan McDonald bn in 1819.
1: 05/06/1819 - MCDONALD, ALLAN - Parents: ALEXR. MCDONALD/MARGT. MCGROUTHER - Parish/Town: REDGORTON /PERTH - SGRO ref: 390/00 0010 0263
2: 01/07/1819 - MCDONALD, ALLAN - Parents: ALLAN MCDONALD/MARGARET WEST (FR2558) - Parish/town: GLASGOW, GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK - SGRO ref: 644/01 0220 0222
3: 30/10/1819 - MCDONALD, ALLAN - Parents: JOHN MCDONALD - Parish/town: STORNOWAY /ROSS AND CROMARTY -SGRO ref 088/00 0010 0096
4: 26/11/1819 - MCDONALD, ALLAN - Parents: ALEXANDER MCDONALD / KATHARINE MCLEAN (FR662) - Paris/town: HAMILTON /LANARK - SGRO ref: 647/00 0030 0273

Did Allan McDonald leave a will when he died?

[dickiesam]

Would be worth searching the National Archives for police records. Not sure if the Isle of Sheppey came under the Metropolitan Police area of London but found this listing of Warrant Numbers from 01/12/1830 to 31/12/1842. Would be worth a look? http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... /r/C210733

[Blue70]

I looked up Andrew Haggart another Scotland born policeman in the next census in 1851 and found that the Allen McDonald who was there with him in 1841 was still there in 1851 so he is the wrong man unfortunately.


Blue

[dickiesam]

Would be worth searching the National Archives for police records. Not sure if the Isle of Sheppey came under the Metropolitan Police area of London but found this listing of Warrant Numbers from 01/12/1830 to 31/12/1842. Would be worth a look? http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... /r/C210733

Re Police Records...
From the NA website:
Only the records of the Metropolitan Police, the Royal Irish Constabulary and a few relating to the Transport Police are held at The National Archives. Surviving records of other police forces are held either by local archives or the relevant force. Not all police staff records have survived.

[djw3]

Thanks again for your help, I will try to have a look at the list of the Scottish Alans And thanks for ruling out the Allen in 1841 census.
I am more interested in finding the maiden name of Eliza than Alan, though having the information on him is good.
The Flintshire marriage being shown as the wrong Elizabeth and John makes me wonder if the marriage date is wrong and it was later than 1847,probably 48 or 49 and in Liverpool.
I have checked through the marriages on North Wales BMD and there is nothing other than the 1847 marriage.
Appreciate both your contributions
djw

[dickiesam]

Hi,
There is a marriage for an Allan McDonald and an Elizabeth on Scotland's People.
Marriage: 25/01/1842 - MCDONALD, ALLAN and ELIZABETH AITKEN - (FR1091) - Parish/Town: KILLEARN/STIRLING - SGRO ref: 482/00 0040 0192

The only way to confirm the mother's maiden name is to purchase the birth cert for the child Elizabeth born in 1845 from the GRO at http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ Cost is £9.25.

[Blue70]

It seems odd that we can't find a marriage record for either of Eliza's partners. It would be interesting to see how old Allan was when he died. Was he an older man? I haven't been able to find a burial record he might be buried in St James Cemetery not far from Rathbone Street only a small number of burials from this cemetery were included online.


Blue

[dickiesam]

djw, re your

mother Eliza remarried to John Williams. This family can be found, 1851 HO107/2179/498/27

Could you please confirm the above census reference for the Williams family in 1851 has a typo for the page number?
I ask because I think the family is at HO107 / 2179 / 498 / 37

In the 1851, Edward Williams - Son 0 [1 mth?] 1851 - Liverpool is an error. He is one year old. See later posts by Bert and Blue.

[Bertieone]

There must be a transcription error on the 51 census, Edward's age, or one died another born?



Edward Williams
Baptism
14 Apr 1850
Liverpool, St Paul
Father, Porter
John Williams
Mother
Eliza Williams
Address, St Paul's Square