Cassidy/Carter/McMin Conundrum!

[Karen]

I've decided to revisit a mystery from my family - bear with me as it's a long one!

My 2x great grandfather, James Cassidy, was born on 28th Sep 1847 and baptised at St. Peter's. His parents were James Cassidy (a mariner) and Nicholas (female!)

James Cassidy & Nicholas Carter were married at Liverpool Register Office on 20 April 1846. Nicholas' father was given as James Carter. (Her mother was Agnes McMin - from her baptism on Scotland's People).

1851 Census (Piece 2181, Folio 823, Page No 22)
James Cassidy 30 Seaman Scotland
Nicol 30 Scotland
James 4 Liverpool
John 1 Liverpool

All is fine until the 1861 Census (Piece 2697, Folio 107, Page No 32)
James Cassidy 38 Mariner (Mer Serv) Scotland
Agnes wife 39 Scotland
James 14
John 11
Thomas 9
William 6
Mary 4
Robert 1

I assumed that Nicholas must have died and James had remarried, but I could not find a death. I checked for any baptisms for children of James & Agnes and found two, both at St. Peter's:

Robert Cassidy, bap 21st Aug 1860
George Cassidy, bap 21st Sep 1863

As George was born after the date Agnes was recorded as being James' wife, I sent for his birth certificate to confirm her name. I was shocked when it said 'Agnes McMin', the same name as the mother of Nicholas Carter!

James & Agnes appear on the next three censuses:

1871 : Piece 3759, Folio 59, Page No 50
1881 : Piece 3597, Folio 61, Page No 58
1891 : Piece 2901, Folio 74, Page No 38

So, Nicholas Carter / Agnes McMin - one and the same person? I cannot find an Agnes McMin of that age on Scotlands People.

My next step is to locate the death of Agnes to see if the certificate throws any light onto the situation. The only potential death I've found so far is in 1892 but the age is a number of years out.

Any ideas would be welcomed!

[MaryA]

I wonder if the solution lies earlier rather than later. Have you ever checked for a marriage of her parents - James Carter and Agnes McMin.

And do you have a birth certificate of one of the older children, James (28 Sep 1847) or John? just to see what they say?

Or Nicholas birth certificate.

The only reason I'm suggesting these is because of one of my own ancestors who was legally registered with one surname but grew up using her mothers, I can only think that she believed she should be the second name because her parents had never married. It's a thought.

[Hilary]

I find it surprising that both parents were named on a marriage certificate as I have never seen that before and there is a space asking for father's name but not mother's name.

The only times I have seen both parents named is in a Catholic Church marriage but not in the legal certificate.

Who are the witnesses to the marriage?

[Blue70]

I thought it strange too that two parents' names came from the 1846 marriage. Perhaps the mother's name came from this baptism of a Nicholas Carter in Scotland in 1821:-

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYM5-7X3


Blue

[Blue70]

Do you know when James Cassidy died? He was a seaman so they could have been away from Liverpool when they died. Here's an Irish death index for an Agnes Cassidy who died in 1898:-

Name: Agnes Cassidy
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1898
Death Age: 76
Registration district: Drogheda
Volume: 2
Page: 350



Blue

[Blue70]

1841 Scotland Census

Name: Nicholas Carter
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Where born: Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: Kirkcudbright
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: High Street
Occupation: F S
Parish Number: 871

Others in household:-

Janet Malcolmson, 80, Publican
James Malcolmson, 50
Margaret Malcolmson, 45
Jane Malcolmson, 45
John Carson, 40, MS
Nicholas Carson, Female, 20, FS



Blue

[Hilary]

1891 census in a court house Hornby Street
James Cassidy 70 general labourer
Agnes Cassidy 71
Robert Cassidy 27 general labourer

James Cassidy death registration

Dec Quarter Liverpool
Volume 8b page 67

[Karen]

I find it surprising that both parents were named on a marriage certificate as I have never seen that before and there is a space asking for father's name but not mother's name.

I have edited my original post - it should have said that the mother's names came from Nicholas' baptism.

[Karen]

I wonder if the solution lies earlier rather than later. Have you ever checked for a marriage of her parents - James Carter and Agnes McMin.

And do you have a birth certificate of one of the older children, James (28 Sep 1847) or John? just to see what they say?

Or Nicholas birth certificate.

I have not been able to find a marriage for James Carter & Agnes McMin. I have the baptism record for Nicholas which reads, "Nicholas, daughter of James Carter and Agnes McMin, in village of Tongland, baptised 13th May 1821."

I haven't got birth certificates for James or John Cassidy as it can be assumed that Nicholas is their mother - she is names on James' baptism record and is with both of them on the 1851 Census. Ideally, I would like to get the birth certificates of the children born between 1851 and 1860 as it is during this time that the name changes from Nicholas to Agnes, but there seems to be a few possible birth registrations for each child.

[Alison C]

Here is a transcription from the site http://www.kirkyards.co.uk/allgraves.as ... ion=mcminn which mentions James Carter and his wife Agnes McMinn

Inscription 121 : Tongland Churchyard
I was unable to find this gravestone. The following inscription is taken from the M.S.C. survey.

In memory of Jannet Anderson, wife of John Carter in Tongland Village, who died 3d Sept’r 1817 aged 75 years. And of Hugh Carter, his son, who died 12th Sept’r. 1817, aged 28 years. Also Jane Carter, his daughter who died 11th Feb’y. 1819 aged 32 years. Also the said John Carter, who died 9th Oct’r. 1829 aged 75 years. Also Agnes McMinn, spouse of their son James Carter, who died 27th Aug’t. 1842, aged 59 years. (rest of stone illegible.)

Alison

[Alison C]

Here is a baptism for James Cassidy from Lancashire OPC:

Baptism: 31 Oct 1847 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James Cassidy - [Child] of James Cassidy & Nicholas [sic]
Born: 28 Sep 1847
Abode: Park Rd Toxteth Park
Occupation: Mariner
Baptised by: Thos. Halton Curate
Register: Baptisms 1847 - 1848, Page 168, Entry 1344
Source: LDS Film 93885

Alison

[Alison C]

Link to discussion on RootsWeb:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/t ... 1336230160

Alison

[Karen]

I have just realised that I hadn't replied to say thank you to Alison - I'm blaming my workload! I've decided to put this family on the backburner for a while and concentrate on a few of my other lines!