Thanks for this, Hilary. You're a star.
Regards
Frank
William Kelley and Lillian Mary deBruin
Re: William Kelley and Lillian Mary deBruin
Frank
Member 7748
Member 7748
Re: William Kelley and Lillian Mary deBruin
Just out of interest how did you know this child was illegitimate if you had no birth certificate or baptism entry and you couldn't find him after 1881?
Hilary
5334
5334
Re: William Kelley and Lillian Mary deBruin
As an aside, what are the chances of locating the birth father of an illegitimate child? The child was born in Everton in 1877 and was living with a different family as a boarderer on the 1881 census.
I received an email this morning from the Great Grandson of John Dowey who resides in New Zealand. The Liverpool Record Office had passed on my contact details to him as I am listed on their list of private researchers.
I received an email this morning from the Great Grandson of John Dowey who resides in New Zealand. The Liverpool Record Office had passed on my contact details to him as I am listed on their list of private researchers.
Member 4335 KatieFD
Strays Co-ordinator
Strays Co-ordinator
Re: William Kelley and Lillian Mary deBruin
Is that an amazing coincidence, or has Frank been in touch with him and recommended this Society.
MaryA
Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives
Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives
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Daisycakes
- Non Member
- Posts: 501
- Joined: 10 Sep 2008 10:42
Re: William Kelley and Lillian Mary deBruin
It really is and how this story has unfolded ....
Ann
Ann
searching for...Jones..Riley..Taylor..Norbury..Murphy..Glover...Mawdsley...(Liverpool) Nicholas..Sinnett..Taylor(Pembrokeshire) Taylor(Yorkshire Liverpool) Maine(Kent Ireland)Smailes(Durham Rugby Liverpool Ohio)
Re: William Kelley and Lillian Mary deBruin
Hi Everyone,
Just to set the record straight regarding my recent posts for assistance regarding the Kelley's et al and John E.C.L. Dowsey. It would appear that one or two members have doubts about my integrity in these matters and I was using the board for financial gain.
Firstly the Kelly family are an extended part of my wife's family - through her son's marriage to the granddaughter of James Kelly - so for personal reasons I was searching for an assumed Portuguese link on the maternal side. The initial information came from my wife's son's father in law, which with hindsight, was back to front. Hence the confusion. It was only after the true facts were unearthed and confirmed by his wife, that we got to the bottom of it.
With regards to to John C. E L. Dorsey, like Katie, I too am a registered freelance researcher withe the Records Office - this is something the society is aware of- and like Katie, I too was approached by a Mr Steve Lord from Auckland New Zealand., who is Mr Dorsey's great grandson.
Mr Lord provided me with some basic information regarding his great grandfather, such as the fact that he was born in Everton in 1877 and was illegitimate, but did not give me his birth mother's details. He also said that on the 1881 census he was recorded as living with a different family. He also stated that the name John Lloyd appeared on his great grandfather's marriage certificate. This was later substantiated by Hilary's research.
He wanted to know what the likelihood was of identifying his great grandfather's birth father and was it a viable option to search for any possible adoption link. Further, he also asked me for a quote regarding my fees in this matter.
In reply, I said that it was most unlikely that we could definitively identify his great grandfather's birth father but given the fact that that the names John and Lloyd appeared as part of his name, as well as on his marriage certificate, it could well be that he was his father.
I pointed out that it was common practice at that time for families to include family names, including surnames, when naming a child. I gave an example of this in the fact that a great uncle of mine was given his mother's surname - Turner - as a second Christian name. I also stated that my paternal grandfather was registered as Frank Lewis John Harley Forrester back in 1899 and that his birth certificate is the only document with this on. Given that his mother's husband - Arthur Forrester - had died 6 years earlier we therefore assumed that John Harley was his birth father. As no work was undertaken by me no fees were requested.
It was out of curiosity, given that I couldn't find anything of John's past after 1881 that I then pursued the investigation and requested some assistance. For what it is worth, once his correct name had been identified I was able to trace him on successive census records. I found him under the name Clarence Dowsey visiting Emma Jane in West Ham in 1891 and John C in 1901. He was living in Peterborough and working as a labourer. He and his wife sailed from Southampton to Genoa first class in 1925. He died in Leeds in 1948.
I hope that this clarifies any confusion. Once agai many thanks for the assistance which was provided.
Kind regards
Frank
Just to set the record straight regarding my recent posts for assistance regarding the Kelley's et al and John E.C.L. Dowsey. It would appear that one or two members have doubts about my integrity in these matters and I was using the board for financial gain.
Firstly the Kelly family are an extended part of my wife's family - through her son's marriage to the granddaughter of James Kelly - so for personal reasons I was searching for an assumed Portuguese link on the maternal side. The initial information came from my wife's son's father in law, which with hindsight, was back to front. Hence the confusion. It was only after the true facts were unearthed and confirmed by his wife, that we got to the bottom of it.
With regards to to John C. E L. Dorsey, like Katie, I too am a registered freelance researcher withe the Records Office - this is something the society is aware of- and like Katie, I too was approached by a Mr Steve Lord from Auckland New Zealand., who is Mr Dorsey's great grandson.
Mr Lord provided me with some basic information regarding his great grandfather, such as the fact that he was born in Everton in 1877 and was illegitimate, but did not give me his birth mother's details. He also said that on the 1881 census he was recorded as living with a different family. He also stated that the name John Lloyd appeared on his great grandfather's marriage certificate. This was later substantiated by Hilary's research.
He wanted to know what the likelihood was of identifying his great grandfather's birth father and was it a viable option to search for any possible adoption link. Further, he also asked me for a quote regarding my fees in this matter.
In reply, I said that it was most unlikely that we could definitively identify his great grandfather's birth father but given the fact that that the names John and Lloyd appeared as part of his name, as well as on his marriage certificate, it could well be that he was his father.
I pointed out that it was common practice at that time for families to include family names, including surnames, when naming a child. I gave an example of this in the fact that a great uncle of mine was given his mother's surname - Turner - as a second Christian name. I also stated that my paternal grandfather was registered as Frank Lewis John Harley Forrester back in 1899 and that his birth certificate is the only document with this on. Given that his mother's husband - Arthur Forrester - had died 6 years earlier we therefore assumed that John Harley was his birth father. As no work was undertaken by me no fees were requested.
It was out of curiosity, given that I couldn't find anything of John's past after 1881 that I then pursued the investigation and requested some assistance. For what it is worth, once his correct name had been identified I was able to trace him on successive census records. I found him under the name Clarence Dowsey visiting Emma Jane in West Ham in 1891 and John C in 1901. He was living in Peterborough and working as a labourer. He and his wife sailed from Southampton to Genoa first class in 1925. He died in Leeds in 1948.
I hope that this clarifies any confusion. Once agai many thanks for the assistance which was provided.
Kind regards
Frank
Frank
Member 7748
Member 7748