Catholic Churches

[simone]

I was hoping witnesses on the marriages would help you but nothing as yet

[Blue70]

If we look at the Turkington/Torkingtons I think this is what we have so far:-

- Mary who marries Henry Ingram at St Peter's CE Liverpool on 28 Jan 1822
- Patrick, Tailor, of Litherland Alley, "Papist", a possible brother of Mary, buried 12 June 1825 at St John's Liverpool, aged 24
- Patrick, of Frederick Street, "Romanist", possible father, uncle or grandfather, probably godfather of Ann Ingram in 1831, buried 10 March 1844 at St John's Liverpool, aged 87, death certificate informant was a Mary Brown

Two others that may be connected:-

- Moses and Elizabeth who baptised Moses at St Mary RC on 3 Sep 1832, he was born on 6 Mar 1832, buried 21 Aug 1834 at St Mary's CE Parish Cemetery, of Cross Hall Street
- John, Tailor, wife: Elizabeth, both born in Ireland, John born c1803, living at 14 Downe Street on the 1851 Census

This c1950 map shows Litherland Alley. Some interesting features here such as a ruined Custom House and various bomb sites. Litherland Alley leads to Canning Place at its southern end and to the extremely narrow Ogden's Weint at its northern end. Frederick Street is on the other side of the Custom House:-





Blue

[lin]

Thanks very much for the map Blue. It is a great help. I will see if i can find anything on the other family you mentioned. I have come across them before but once I see born in Ireland it puts me off. Did not know about the child Moses.
Thanks again
Lin

[Blue70]

The Mary Brown informant on Patrick's death certificate in 1844 could be from this household living in same street, Frederick Street and Irish-born:-

1841 Census

Name: Mary Brown
Age: 30
Where born: Ireland
Address: Frederick Street Liverpool
Head: John (35), mariner, Born: Ireland
Children: Elizabeth (13), Margt (10) & Caroline (4), Born: Lancs (Y)

Looking at the two older children's names are these the Ingram daughters? Is this the couple who married in 1835? Could this Mary Brown be late Ingram formerly Turkington/Torkington? If so what about the Henry Ingram, Irish-born tailor at Nash Street in 1841 is this a different man to Mary's husband? Do we have bigamy here? Any thoughts?


Blue

[Blue70]

John, Mary and Caroline are at Mercer's Court not far from Litherland Alley on the 1851 Census. Parents both 40, Caroline aged 14. From viewing that image go to page 1 for the description of the area and there's a nice map showing Mercer's Court and Litherland Alley.


Blue

[Blue70]

Possible widowed Mary (62) and daughter Caroline at 28 Denison Street in 1861.


Blue

[Hilary]

Very interesting and could be!

[MaryA]

It is Lan opc that transcribed her name as Torkinton yet on the certificate on ancestry it does say Torpenton

I have to disagree, it couldn't look more like Torkinton to me

[lin]

I was so excited when i read this. All the names fit apart from the ages and i don't really know how that works on the census. If Mary was 30 in 1841 she was born 1811 so she could not have married in 1822.
I do think she might be the one who reported the death.
Also Elizabeth would of been about 19.
I have had a look at the fever hospital records once but never found anything. I will go back and search some more and see if there is any clue there.
Thank you so much Blue for taking the time and trouble to search for me.
Lin

[Blue70]

This baptism hopefully proves the Torkington Ingram Brown link, this appears to be the Caroline Brown who appears on the 1841 Census with John and Mary Brown and siblings Elizabeth and Margaret. Caroline has a variant of Torkington on her baptism record:-

Name: Carolina Browns
Birth Date: 13 Jan 1837
Baptism Date: 22 Jan 1837
Parish: St Nicholas RC
Father's name: Joannis Browns
Mother's name: Maria Turpentens


Blue

[lin]

Oh Blue thank you so much. That is definitely her. On Margarets baptism she is down as Turpenton. I think because she could not read or write and probably had an accent it was easy to misinterpret her name.
Not sure she made it any easier for me by becoming a Brown but never mind.
Can't believe you found all that info.
Thanks again
Lin

[Blue70]

I'm struggling to find a burial record for Henry Ingram pre-1841 or pre-1835. He could well be the Henry Ingram, Irish-born, tailor, aged 40, living in Nash Street Islington Liverpool in 1841 with the Harveys who were also tailors. He could be the Henry Ingham, Irish-born, married (no sign of a wife), tailor, aged 55, lodging in St James Street, Heap, Lancashire with the Stansfields who were also tailors in 1851. In 1861 he is recorded as Henry Hingram, Irish-born, married (no wife with him), tailor, aged 60, boarding at 42 Church Street, Heap, Lancashire.


Blue

[simone]

Great work that Blue

[Blue70]

I think this is Caroline Brown's marriage:-

Marriage: 7 May 1862 St Peter CE, Liverpool, Lancs.
George Waley - full, Mariner, Bachelor, Gt. Howard St.
Caroline Brown - full, Spinster, Gt. Howard St.
Groom's Father: George Waley, Mariner
Bride's Father: John Brown, Mariner
Witness: W. John Rumbold; Mary Ann Thomas
Married by Banns by: A. J. Tomlin B. A. Curate
Register: Marriages 1861 - 1862, Page 234, Entry 467
Source: LDS Film 1656681


Blue

[lin]

Hi Blue
I found that one today but never got the certificate up. I was going to send for it and stipulate fathers name John. Thanks very much. There were 3 possibles that i could see. This is definitely the one as Margaret Ingram married William Rumbold and John Rumbold is a witness on this one.
I have struggled with this for years getting myself all confused as her name was Torpenton on Margarets birth which is my husbands direct line then on the marriage it was Torkinton. Patrick was Turkington i just could not fathom it out.
Once again thank you so much. I feel as though a weight has been lifted today.
Lin